Is there a need for another good solid BY sleepaway camp?

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Forum -> Chinuch, Education & Schooling -> Summer Camps

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amother

OP ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:25 pm

Title says it all.

I was a day camp director for three years. My program director was approached by an investor that would like to open a sleepaway camp for Bais Yaakov girls but not super yeshivish type. They claim that many girls cannot get in to the mainstream camps.

Is that so?
Think camp Chaviva and Seviva style

amother

Burgundy ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:29 pm

Most of the camps are not full in august. Don’t think they need another camp for august, maybe July.

seeker ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:45 pm

I think there's space. Like amother above said there is more of a problem getting into places for July, but that includes people looking for a full summer so they would need both halves. And I think there are also open niches for "types" of camps. When I was looking for a place for my DD B"H she got into the one that her friends are going to that seems like a good "type" for her but others were too modern or too yeshivish or too jappy (sorry, I hate to use derogatory words like this, but can we all accept that this is a thing?)

If you wanted to go for something down to earth, low maintenance, and lower priced than all the "keeping up with the Joneses" camps, I think people will be banging down your door to get in. Nowadays it seems like the basic default for camp programs is on par with what was considered the rich camp 20-ish years ago. I want my kid to have a good wholesome time, gain some independence, and spend time in nature. I do NOT need her coming home with a bunch of garbage custom printed with the camp theme. I also do not need to go into debt for every rite of passage.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:51 pm

seeker wrote:

Thank you for this detailed answer.

The question is if the girls are looking for that type of camp as well. If all their friends are coming home with crazy swag and they only went mud sliding they might enjoy the moment but won’t go because of the camps “reputation”.

Is there a reason why July is more of a draw? This year it’s the three weeks. I would think girls would rather go when music can be played.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:51 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

Most of the camps are not full in august. Don’t think they need another camp for august, maybe July.

Thank you

amother

DarkKhaki

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 8:55 pm

Yes, yes, and yes!! At least for my neighborhood. Alllll the girls want to go to Chaviva and they have room to take like 2 new girls. There’s all these parents ready to pay full camp cost, and just no spots for their daughters. So there was tons of girls walking around devastated and embarrassed that they didn’t get in. It would be amazing if someone could open a similar camp and fill that need.

↑ seeker ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 9:02 pm

I don't know why first half seems more popular. I didn't check the calendar so I assumed it was because it's a leap year and the 9 days come out second half but you said that's not so? So yeah that sounds weird. No idea. But I know people who didn't get into their choice camp first half so they chose another camp they could go to for the whole summer. I also know people who always go straight for second half because they are scholarship cases and the camps are more forthcoming in the less in-demand half.

I think if the camp is more affordable then the parents won't care what their kids think about swag, the kids will go where the parents send them. And if you make it sound cool then the kids will focus on the coolness and not on the swag. Honestly I am skeptical whether kids are at all impressed by the swag anymore anyway. It's basically garbage nobody needs, and if you need to get something more special so they won't see it as junk then you're in a cycle that never ends. Get some swag, fine, but enough of this keeping up with the Joneses business. I saw a camp one year rent a helicopter for a special night activity. I GUARANTEE I had more fun as a kid playing let's make a deal for night activity than these kids had standing in line for 2 hours for their 3-minute wow experience that might indeed be wow but then you need to keep thinking of the next wow. When I was camp age, helicopters were a Camp Simcha activity and we all understood perfectly well that it was appropriate and necessary for kids who were literally incapable of the more regular activities. What had to change?

OK maybe I'm just an old grinch. But I don't get it. I also think that activities made out of mud and sticks are super cool and creative.

Hashem_Yaazor

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 9:37 pm

Yes, there is a need.

amother

DarkCyan

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 9:54 pm

Definitely a need. I know girls who couldn’t get into Chaviva, Bnos Naaleh, maarava ect and they are nice girls from nice families. Just no space.

amother

Daphne ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 9:58 pm

definitely a need. For us it would make a difference if it was approved by the local federation since they pay towards the first year and less for the second. My daughter applied to maarava and agudah midwest when they opened and couldn't get in to either. b"H she got in to to maayan midwest and I'm hoping it'll be a good match for her but for people who need to be as yesheivish as the other camps they would be stuck.

it would be great if it could be like sternberg pioneers type of camp, outdoorsy, simple... but not as mixed a crowd.

ysydmom

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 10:08 pm

Please open a down to earth type of camp I agree with all the posters above. I hate shelling out money for swag it's $20 for this and $20 for that and by the time I'm done I am exhausted financially. Please open a nice basic camp. Let the kids just enjoy being outdoors and having fun. Get a great activities director and Music person let the kids focus on a huge end of camp production or talent show instead of extra things/trips. Let the focus be the kids and not the trips/t shirts and sweatshirts. Find a way to let each girl shine. This is what is needed.

Example of activities,
Swimming
choir
dance
drama
planting
cooking
baking
sports
gymnastics
ballet
art
science experiments

Let them use nature to it's fullest!

amother

Whitesmoke ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 10:51 pm

First half is impossible to find a spot in any Bais Yaakov camp.
I also think parents want affordable options.
Like Bnos Ruach Chaim is super simple - no frills.
But they have a waiting list a mile long bec of the price.

And the girls love it.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 11:07 pm

Thank you all for the amazing feedback!

I really appreciate it.
Do keep you opinions coming as I need as much info as I can gather.

amother

Bergamot

Thu, Apr 28 2022, 11:13 pm

There is def a need for a sviva, chaviva, raninu type of bais Yaakov camp! Lots of girls couldn’t get in and not just for July since sviva is only a one half camp.

LovesHashem

Fri, Apr 29 2022, 12:15 am

July might be more popular because August is bein hazmanim, for families in kollel or have boys in yeshiva that's when they can do family trips.

notshanarishona

Fri, Apr 29 2022, 5:38 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

School starts for many at the end of August. Leaving camp early is a bummer , especially with paying such a fortune. Also many want/need a few days to do laundry, come down to earth, get school supplies before school starts and not go straight.
I would think if there was a 3 week camp in August that might be more successful.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Fri, Apr 29 2022, 6:29 am

How about a camp that would be one session for 6 weeks.

I always felt like 8 was too long and 4 was too short. Do you think girls and parents would go for such a concept?

amother

DarkMagenta

Fri, Apr 29 2022, 7:00 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

How about a camp that would be one session for 6 weeks.

I always felt like 8 was too long and 4 was too short. Do you think girls and parents would go for such a concept?

I think thats a great idea! Sternberg was like this actually and I loved it when I went. It was really a nice amount of time without being too long.

I think many go first half because (at least in lakewood) the boys are all still in school so when families go away togethor its usually second half.

Also, the 9 days is usually second half.

Keep in mind though, with a 6 week camp, it would not be an option for girls who want to get a job second half or go to another camp.

amother

Maple

Fri, Apr 29 2022, 8:25 am

There is definitely need for another Chaviva Sviva type camp!

6 weeks sort of messes up a girls summer plans if she wants to work one half or go to another camp.

There is such a demand but I think both halves do well. I think July is usually more popular because girls like to start out the summer with a bang. Girls in the bungalow colonies have always gravitated to Sleepaway first half

ChutzPAh

Fri, Apr 29 2022, 8:37 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

How about a camp that would be one session for 6 weeks.

I always felt like 8 was too long and 4 was too short. Do you think girls and parents would go for such a concept?

That’s not as lucrative for the camp- they are not making full use of their grounds so I doubt the backers would be interested in this.

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