Teenage son wants to hang out with girls

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 12:17 am

amother [ Starflower ] wrote:

House rules girls only in common living areas?
Rooms with doors open?

My other daughter has her very yeshivish friends over, she'll be petrified if they are in living area. This son has his own entrance to his space... I am not worried they do anything, at least not at this point, they are just friends hanging out.... I guess my question is if I categorically forbid, will he go somewhere else next time and not tell me? But if I tolerate, means I endorse? I wish I knew what to do

amother

Snowdrop ↓

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 12:21 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Who will be petrified? Your daughter?
Of... girls?

I am yeshivish and not really understanding her misplaced fear.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 12:28 am

amother [ Banana ] wrote:

I thi no she meant her daughter would be embarrassed.
OP, you can try putting down rules but chances are he’ll do what he wants anyway and is more likely to hide things from you.

Correct, she will be extremely embarrassed. She is at that age and is embarrassed of him as is. Sad

So sounds like there isn't anything I can do to turn things around.... just accept it.
Why? Where did we go wrong? As BT it hurts so so much. I'm BT so my kids can have normal frum life, not lack spiritually, but he chooses to throw it away Crying

elisheva25

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 12:36 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Correct, she will be extremely embarrassed. She is at that age and is embarrassed of him as is. Sad

I think it’s extreme to say “he is throwing it away “.
More like he is acting like a teenager now, and you have to figuire out the best way to parent him
Doesn’t sound like it has anything to do w/you personally or frumkeit.

amother

↑ Snowdrop

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 12:39 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Correct, she will be extremely embarrassed. She is at that age and is embarrassed of him as is. Sad

Ouch. If you are a BT I would assume you have raised your children to not be judgemental of others and their hashkafa. Your daughter being embarrassed needs to be addressed by you and your DH. My brother went OTD, tattoos everything. I was never embarrassed of him when he came home and I was home.

amother

Dandelion ↓

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 12:44 am

Question-is your son MO in haskafa or just not as yeshivish or shtark as you would like?
I am proudly MO. My children go to co-ed schools and have friends of both genders. We have a no mixed gender in bedroom rule. Really a no boys upstairs rule. Boys (my children are girls) can come over and hang out on the main floor or in the open basement (not behind closed doors of any sort-not even if they are not over yichud and there are 3 boys and 5 girls.) I am great at delivering snacks, offering up cool activity ideas, asking quick questions (checking in on them).
The fact that your DD is embarrassed is another story. Maybe discuss with her that it is OK or that she should hand out at the friends house or she can go up to her room and stay there with her friend.
Do not push your son away.

DrMom ↓

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 1:15 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

- Having a "no mixed sxes in the bedroom" rule is pretty standard in many households, including many secular households. It would not be at all unreasonable to insist om this.

- Why is your DD "petrified" if her own brother is in the living room? Is she petrified of her brother or of his friends? Why? Can you explain? It sounds like it is her meshugas and not something that should limit her brother's behavior.

- What do you mean your son "has his own entrance to his space"? Do you mean a private entrance to his bedroom?

You sound like you are afraid to parent. There is nothing wrong with laying down reasonable rules and expecting your kids to abide by them. He's a teenager, he may very well push boundaries, but you need to be clear about your expectations.

essie14

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 2:11 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

So upset and not sure how to react. I am aware that my 16 y.o. son sometimes hangs out with girls as part of his friends group. We are BT yeshivish, but this son has been leaning more towards MO if I have to put him in a box... He knows I'm strongly against it and it's against his school rules.
They are in his room now. What do I do?

Don't be so afraid to parent. He's a teenager.

No friends of opposite s*x is completely standard in secular households.
A 16 year old should not have his own entrance - he comes and goes as he pleases without telling anyone?
And he definitely should not have friends of any s*x over without you seeing them walk through the front door.

If a sister has an issue with her brother's friends, the issue is on her. My sons are totally annoyed by DD's friends, that is part of life. Everyone can keep their space. If your DS is hanging out with friends in the common space, your DD can be in her room.
If DD was in the common space first with her friends, DS can be in his room with the door open.
He's not MO just because he is hanging out with girls. He is a normal male teenager.

amother

Winterberry

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 3:35 am

I forget which Tzaddik it was (perhaps, Reb LY of Berditchov), whose disciple came to him complaining about his son that he dances with women and eats chazer. The tzaddik told him, "at least he has natural human tendencies; imagine if it were the opposite, and he danced with pigs and ate women?"

Op, this is not to make light of your difficult, painful situation, but just to share a Tzaddik's perspective. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with your son, though he must be redirected. All the blessings to you!

amother

Brass ↓

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:43 am

Op I totally hear you
Btdt
Absolutely set the rules for everyone in your house
Absolutely take your daughter and everyone’s comfort level into consideration
Everyone knew definitely no opposite gender in bedrooms (had this rule growing up “secular” too)
As for common space think what works for your family and make it the house rule for everyone
Sounds like your son is oldest so it makes sense that you have to add new rules as your family gets older
So some kids may meet up at someone else’s house or public place this is still better and you must maintain parental authority in your home
I would decharge the issues as much as possible and tell everyone these are the home rules for everyone and make an effort to stay in the present as much as possible to maintain clarity over what works now
Hugs and hatzlocha

FranticFrummie ↓

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 8:58 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Correct, she will be extremely embarrassed. She is at that age and is embarrassed of him as is. Sad

OP, I really want to validate your feelings here. I'm a BT, and my DD is not religious at the moment. I went through the same heartbreak, guilt, anguish, and tears. I wondered where I had failed, and I wondered if Hashem was going to hold it against me. I was terrified for DD's spiritual future.

What helped me the most, was talking to my rebbetzin. She said "You don't know what your DD's tafkid in life is. Maybe she needs to experience a secular life, in order to come back even stronger. You gave her a very solid foundation in Torah from the day she was born. She's had her bas mitzva. Halachically, you are no longer responsible for her choices. What she does now is between her and Hashem. You have the right to enforce house rules, but you need to let go of all the other power struggles."

She was absolutely right. DD went from wanting to run away from home, to confiding in me about everything. She learned that when I let go of the emotional attachment to her actions, and didn't get reactive, she could be completely open and honest. She still heard about how I felt about things, and what my boundaries are, and she was receptive. I started treating her like a young adult, instead of a child, and she started living up to my expectations.

Sure, she went on her computer and listened to music on Shabbos, but she used headphones, and kept her door closed. She never rubbed it in my face that she was breaking Shabbos. She started wearing pants, and I bit my tongue. Long term, our relationship has only gotten stronger.

Who knows what life has in store for her? Maybe some day she'll return, and end up being an amazing kiruv worker or girls' counselor. Only Hashem knows.

My DD may not be observant right now, but she is one of the most wonderful people I know, and has the BEST middos. I wish more Jews could be like her.

↑ sequoia

Wed, Jul 14 2021, 9:04 am

amother [ Dandelion ] wrote:

There are was to block/bolt a door so that it is inaccessible without doing construction.

That still seems like an extreme measure.

The teen is already used to privacy and independence, as all teens crave; taking it away is the kind of punishment that should be reserved for drug use, not hanging out with a female friend.

It certainly won’t endear him to Judaism.