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-> In the News
klotzkashe
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 Sun, Aug 28 2005, 7:38 pm
Wondering if there's anyone on here who has relatives, friends or actually lives in New Orleans. HOw are they all coping that the ENTIRE city has been orderred to evacuate pending Hurricane Katrina?
Wishign them all the best from down under...
THe Klotz
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stem
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 10:03 am
There is an area of New Orleans called "the westbank" which (like the rest of new orleans) had a mandatory evacuation. All people were ordered to get out of the city. New Orleans is now totally submerged underwater, houses are flooded up to the roofs, Louisiana, missisippi and parts of florida were lliterally, flooded by a mabul, floodwaters are still rising. More than a million people are homeless, living in shelters across the country.
I just get the feeling that this is somehow tied with what happened with the gaza and west bank evacuations in Israel. (Hurrican Katrina sounds a bit like Katif... no?)
I saw a line on one of the news websites: "westbank ordered with a mandatory evacuation" - I just got chills.
Is it a coincidence??
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queen
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 10:54 am
according to Torah there are no such things as coincidences.
We were wondering what ppl were doing with their cars in such a situation. I can't believe a car doesn't get absolutely ruined when submerged in water, as is happening there!?!?!!?!?
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stem
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 11:03 am
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The damage is being estimated at 25 billion dollars. That probably includes all the submerged cars, houses etc. The pictures are horrifying.
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lucky
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 11:27 am
Be on the watch for used cars being sold without disclosing the info of waterdamage. the car can be cleaned, and looks very new, low mileage, but it will rust and give you loads of trouble. I've seen this warning many times after hurricane season.
do a carfax check to see if the car is from the south.
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baby's mom
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 8:20 pm
It is devastating! 
Amazing how Hashem can take away things in an instant! We get so attached to things but Hashem reminds us how temporary they actually are....
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chavamom
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 8:46 pm
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I just got an e-mail. We have friends who moved to New Orleans and they got in contact with another friend. They evacuated before the huricane and are staying with relatives somewhere, but what has become of their house, they have no idea.
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chavamom
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 8:47 pm
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Oh, and my husband also said he finds it ironic that the US was forced to evacuate Southern cities just shortly after they had pressured Israel to evacuate *their* "Southern cities". There are no coincidences.
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mirikush
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 8:51 pm
Midah kneged Midah....Bush pushed for the so called evacuation of Gaza...now his country gets a forced evacuation of it's own.
It's sad when people have been killed by the hurricane but really no one cared when our people were forced out and yes abandoned to the elements. I can't but feel a little joyous at the reverse of fortune for the non jews. I just hope no Jews were adversly affected by the storm. I have no more koach to worry about the others!!
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mirikush
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 8:55 pm
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actually I meant our towns in the area of Gaza...if only we would have the strength to evacuate Gaza city and do to the arabs what is being done to our own!!
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Mandy
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 11:08 pm
| Quote: | | I can't but feel a little joyous at the reverse of fortune for the non jews |
I don't think this is the right attitude. The kitzur shulchan aruch says something about not being callous during times of national tragedy. I'm not sure of the quote exactly.
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1stimer
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Tue, Aug 30 2005, 11:55 pm
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binfol ovecha al tismach. Don't rejoice over your enemies' downfall. Which is why we spill wine on pesach when we mention the plagues. We can't have a full cup of wine when others are suffering. This is regarding the Egyptians, who opressed us for 210 years!! Especially regarding americans, which is a malchusa d'chesed.
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sarahd
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Wed, Aug 31 2005, 1:06 am
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Besides, you know, it wasn't the Americans who pulled the Jews out of Gaza.
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MatzosMama
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Wed, Aug 31 2005, 1:28 am
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It is after 4am here where I live, and we have been issued a flash flood warning. My aunt lives in Memphis Tenn. and she said that is it just horriable what is going on. It seems that people are looting and there have been reports of police officers being shot. This is being compared to the Tsummi last winter.
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TzenaRena
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Wed, Aug 31 2005, 1:41 am
| 1stimer wrote: | | binfol ovecha al tismach. Don't rejoice over your enemies' downfall. Which is why we spill wine on pesach when we mention the plagues. We can't have a full cup of wine when others are suffering. This is regarding the Egyptians, who opressed us for 210 years!! Especially regarding americans, which is a malchusa d'chesed. |
See Megilla 16(1) Haman laments his fate that he has to attend to grooming and bathing Mordechai. Mordechai reminds him that he was once a barber for 22 years.... Haman bades Mordechai mount the horse, but Mordechai says he is too weak from fasting. Haman bends down so that Mordechai can use him as a footstool to mount. Mordechai gives him a KICK. Haman asks does it not say "binfol oyivcha....( Mishlei 24: 17) Mordechai answers that this refers to a Jewish adversary, but about you it says " v'ata al bomoseimo sidroch"-You shall tread on their high places!"
The Meforshim on the Mishna in Avos (4:19) explain that this Mishna refers to a personal enemy, but about enemies of Hashem (and/or the Jewish people) it says "ba'avod r'shaim rina"(Mishlei 11:10)with the loss of the wicked there is rejoicing.
Also Balak (23:9) "They are a nation that dwells alone, and is not reckoned amongst the nations" Rashi says: ...another explanation when they rejoice, no nation rejoices with them, as it says (Devorim 32) Hashem Baddad Yanchenu- G-d leads them alone.
There is also a corollary to this; when the nations rejoice, Israel does not. What causes them to rejoice spells hardship, and pain for us.
Last edited by TzenaRena on Wed, Aug 31 2005, 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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mirikush
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Wed, Aug 31 2005, 1:49 am
hmmm.... | Quote: | | it wasn't the Americans who pulled the Jews out of Gaza |
hello it was pressure from the Americans and europeans who forced the israeli Government to commit to expulsion. Financil blackmail and social ostracising goes a long way to convince someon to chop of their own hand...
It's ok for the Yanks to respond to terrorism in their own unique way...ie blow the momzers out of their holes but G-d forbid if Jews do. No we have to pander to the Arabs.
Let me tell you the Arabs see this as one big victory. Yet we all sit around going oh well! We had to do it. NO we didn't have to do it but we are weak when it comes to responding to non jews.
Also as far as | Quote: | | not being callous during times of national tragedy. | ??? Is it our national tragedy. Are we forgetting history?? Since when has America (or other countries) welcommed us with open arms. Whem R' Kahana OBM was assasinated by an Arab what was trhe governments stand. A complete lack of interest until the same murdering fiend had his hand in the bombing of the world trade centre.
So there you go.
The halacha as I know it is you only mourne for a Jew. Did we mourne for the death of Haman? Seems to be a lot of rejoicing going on during Purim...
Do we mourne for the destruction of Nazi Germany?
And yes. American policy regarding Eretz Yisroel is just as destructiove, maybe even more so as we refuse to see it's importance concerning the future of our nation. We can't look beyond America being anything other than a friend of israel...
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TzenaRena
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Wed, Aug 31 2005, 3:00 am
Unfortunately, Sharon brought much of this American pressure on. The Gaza idea was HIS, and he sold it to Bush. That is not to deny that America was pressuring Israel, but Gaza wasn't even part of it.
I think this is what the Rebbe means when he tells us we have to open up our eyes to see Moshiach. We don't have to remain in Galus, but we are literally keeping ourselves there by closing our eyes and living with a Galus mentality. If the [gentile] is not persecuting us, we INVITE him to.
Last edited by TzenaRena on Sun, Sep 04 2005, 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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sarahd
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Wed, Aug 31 2005, 3:05 am
Mirikush, it's easy for you in Australia to rejoice at America's troubles, but it would be stupid in the extreme for American Jews to do the same. We are b"h well-tolerated in the US but make no mistake - we are guests there, no less than we were in Europe and the Middle Eastern countries previously. It would be suicidal for us to wear out our welcome in the US by celebrating when Americans are suffering (even if we wanted to).
Besides, this comment | Quote: | | Quote: | Quote:
not being callous during times of national tragedy. |
??? Is it our national tragedy. Are we forgetting history?? Since when has America (or other countries) welcommed us with open arms
| shows complete ignorance of the history of Jews in America.
And note, the point was not being callous during our national tragedy, but callousness during the time of tragedy of our host country, a medina shel chessed which has treated us better than any other country in the course of our long and bitter golus.
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Mandy
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Wed, Aug 31 2005, 6:39 am
kitzur shulchan aruch hilchos ishus, kuf nun ( hilchos tznius ), halacha 12 says that when there is a famine or other national misfortune, even though he may have food in his home or the tragedy does not affect him personally, tashmish is still assur, unless it is mikvah night or they don't have children. So regardless of all the quotes and psukim that people bring about "our enemies" ( which anyway doesn't apply to America), you are not supposed to ignore or be callous towards national calamity by being intimate with your spouse and being happy ( presumably).
Uh... also mirikush and others, keep in mind that by rejoicing at this national tragedy and by thinking that this is America's punishment for Israeli politics, you are not placing yourself in very good company. I am sure that the Taliban and Al-Quada are having a big party about this tragedy. I would hope that we would be above that.
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