The story of Purim

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The story of Purim

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aycg

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 12:41 pm

I always thought there was more to the story then what they teach us little kids. Listening to my kids cd now I can’t help but wonder. Anyone know the deeper part of the story? Mordchai was married to Esther? What type of “marriage” was Esther to achvaroish? What about that night that Esther went to achshvairoish to tell him she’s Jewish? How didn’t he know she is? What about the story where Achshvroish found Esther with Haman? Was he trying to “do stuff” with her?

Lovable

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 12:43 pm

aycg wrote:

Always wondered about this!
Following

Java ↓

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 12:46 pm

It's interesting stuff!
I always learned that Mordechai and Esther were married.
Esther was considered an "ones" (right word?) when she was with Achashverosh, so her and Mordechai were stilll mutar UNTIL she went to Achashveirosh of her own volition. After that she couldn't go back to Mordechai
It's really very very sad when you think about it... Poor Esther Sad

They don't teach you that part in elementary school... it's very "and they all lived happily ever after"

trixx

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 12:57 pm

Read Let My Nation Live by Yosef Deutsch, it's written like a novel

Yes one opinion is that Mordechai and Esther were married. This makes the night with the king very sad for her as she had to divorce Mordechai after that. This is why she tells him "kaasher avadti, avadti" - I will be lost from my nation (olam haba) and from you (my spouse)

BTW the beauty pageant? Achashverosh was systematically sleeping with every single virgin, then every married lady in the kingdom.

Yes Haman was trying to rape her. (or so Achashverosh thought, he just threw himself at her feet)

Lots not included in the kids story tapes lol.

Blessing1

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 12:59 pm

I think haman threw himself at Esther's feet to beg her that she should spare his life.

Last edited by Blessing1 on Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

leah233

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:00 pm

aycg wrote:

(1) What type of “marriage” was Esther to achvaroish? What about that night that Esther went to achshvairoish to tell him she’s Jewish? (2)How didn’t he know she is? (3)What about the story where Achshvroish found Esther with Haman? Was he trying to “do stuff” with her?

(1)Clearly a marriage with no real connection if she was scared to go over to him and hadn't spoken to him for more than 30 days. She probably wasn't his only wife

(2)Esther made an effort to conceal that information and Achshvroish probably wasn't so interested in her as to really care

(3)No but he fell on her bed and Achshvroish thought he was

Shabbosiscoming ↓

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:00 pm

cutestbaby wrote:

They don't teach you that part in elementary school... it's very "and they all lived happily ever after"

This. That's why she said "if I die, I die." She was willing to give up her olam habbah by going to Achashveirosh voluntarily. She was

(From what I understand, she couldn't have gone home either way. All the women were sent to live in the pilegesh house after seeing the king "unless called by name." Once the king was with a woman, no one else was allowed to be with her.)

When Achashveirosh found Haman with Esther, a malach pushed Haman onto the couch on which she was reclining. He had come over to her to beg for his life. Nothing actually happened. Achashveirosh was just paranoid cause Haman had been the only one invited to the two parties. He had also had a nightmare that Haman was plotting to overthrow him. (That's why he couldn't sleep and the servant read to him about Mordechai saving his life.) Then there was Haman's answer to he king's question of how to reward someone: dress him in the royal clothes and crown and parade him on the royal horse. Finding Haman laying on the Quebec's couch was basically the nail in the coffin.

↑ Shabbosiscoming

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:11 pm

aycg wrote:

What about that night that Esther went to achshvairoish to tell him she’s Jewish? How didn’t he know she is?

She didn't tell him. That's the famous part where Esther had 7 maidservants so she knew when it was Shabbos. She needed a different one each day because Persia had a 6 day week.

pinkpeonies ↓

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:13 pm

aycg wrote:

Read the book "let my nation live" by Yosef Deutch. I PROMISE you will not be disappointed! As a kid, I read it every single year before purim (its not a kids book, I was just an advanced reader)

LovesHashem

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:15 pm

Every single girl achashveirosh was with was sent to a pilegesh house and could never be with anyone ever again. They all lived out the rest of their lives there.

Makes me sad when I think about how many Jewish women were trapped there for their entire life.

farmom

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:18 pm

The Gilded Cage is the fascinating story of Queen Esther. Reads like a novel, loads of research to back it up. Highly recommend!

https://www.amazon.com/Gilded-.....r=8-1

↑ pinkpeonies

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:24 pm

trixx wrote:

Another opinion, in the gemara, is as follows.
When Esther went to Achashveirosh, she made herself into something called "karka olam" literally the dirt of the ground. She did not take one tiny bit of initiative, she had to be dragged to his chamber like a dishrag. actually when the megilla says "kshehigiya tor esther bas avichayil dod mordechai" the trop underneath the letters are four "munach"s in a row, to show that she stalled and didnt take any initiative at all.
This way, whenever she was called to Achashveirosh, she was a karka olam and it was as if she didnt commit arayos. Afterwards, she would go to the mikva and sneak out to mordechai.

When Mordechai asked her to go to achashveirosh to plead for the Jewish people, he knew what he was asking her. He was asking her to go from her own initiative, meaning NOT as a karka olam. He and she both knew that this was the end of her marriage to Mordechai and the beginning of her life as the wife of Achashveirosh, a terrible fate for a Jewish woman. But she did it after fasting for three days.

She was more of a hero than we could ever imagine, giving up her entire happiness and marriage to the gadol hador to save the Jewish nation. The rest of her life was miserable, although she did have a son with achashveirosh, Daryavesh, who alowed the Jews to return to E"y and start rebuilding the bais Hamikdash.

Now in regard to Haman, he actually wasnt trying to rape Esther. He was trying to kneel at her feet to ask her forgiveness, but the malach Gavriel pushed him down so that it looked as if he was trying to force himself on her. He was terrified because he knew how much trouble he was with the king as it was, but the malach gavriel wouldnt let him get up so that it looked like he was trying to rape her EVEN as Achashveirosh returned!

The purim story is beyong fascinating when learned with proper midrashim and sources

Malkqueen ↓

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:32 pm

Another interesting tidbit I learned, although I don't recall the source:
When Achashverosh called for Vashti to come to his feast, he wanted her to appear naked. (I had always wondered why Vashti with her voluminous gowns and perhaps the use of a veil couldn't somehow hide her tail and pimples.)

↑ Java

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:35 pm

Malkqueen wrote:

I thought this was common knowledge Smile

↑ Malkqueen

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 1:39 pm

cutestbaby wrote:

I thought this was common knowledge Smile

Perhaps by now it is Very Happy

I first encountered this factoid in my upper teens.

Crookshanks ↓

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 2:25 pm

Rav Shlomo Brevda wrote a fascinating pamphlet about Megillas Esther. I read it every year for years until it disappeared. You can order it:
https://www.amazon.com/Harav-S.....94141
https://www.barnesandnoble.com.....93988

cbsp

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 2:29 pm

Crookshanks wrote:

That's only part one. Part two is equally enlightening. Any idea where to get it?

I think, though, it's also available as a recording (I remember Rabbi Brevda zt"l giving this as a shiur)

↑ Crookshanks ↓

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 2:52 pm

I don't even know where my copy is from. I discovered it at some point hiding in the study when I was maybe 9 or 12.

Conscience

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 2:56 pm

Not answering the questions on one foot, because these topics are really deep, but just saying that teaching megillas esther for a few years gave me an unbelievable new perspective to this story we learnt all years.
I am just suggesting that anyone has a few minutes, learn something on the megilla, if you have more than a few minutes delve into the commentaries!

It's mindblowing!

yamaha

Mon, Feb 01 2021, 2:57 pm

Malkqueen wrote:

I think it might be Rashi, but I need to look it up. Basically, when he wanted her to come in her crown, he wanted her to come in ONLY her crown.

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