what would be the reason to go to the mikva already?
This is a wild guess, but if she is the surrogate she might have gone?
Anyhow someone upthread mentioned that there didn't seem to be protekzia. I think her telling the social workers that she manages the Warburg fund was enough that they took her word for it that Akiva has no alcohol problem. (I didn't follow every word there but I think that's what she sai And maybe the Rov at the Rabbanut also heard of the Warburg fund?) Because it doesn't make much sense otherwise.
But here's what I'm wondering. Any Child Protection Services cases that I've ever read about, there was follow-up for a while til they were convinced everything was fine. I don't know if that's the case in Israel but if so - what happens when they come to check? Fine, the zaidie can have a crib there for einikel's visits, but what if they realize there's nothing to show Devora'leh lives with Racheli? Also funny because she says they were busy looking for an apartment but won't they realize she's been living in the same very nice apartment?
The whole cps incident is NOT AT ALL how it works in Israel. They would never JUST take a child away like that. Its a long drawn out process. So the fact that she was given back so quickly was just an add on to the quickness of the beginning of that bit. Thats all.
And racheli as a surrogate? I think very much not. A charedi single woman to be a surrogate? I dont think so at all.
And racheli as a surrogate? I think very much not. A charedi single woman to be a surrogate? I dont think so at all.
I'm pretty sure they alluded to the surrogate as Gabriella, so its probably not Rachelli. (Unless she has a second name she goes by)
BUT, had they not said that, I would think it's a possibility, only because of the juxtaposition of the two scenes. In one you see them talking about Ruchami wanting to go meet the surrogate, and the next scene shows Rachelli lying on her couch with her hand on her belly.
As to the fact that she is chareidi, consider the following: suragacy is such a bedieved, because it is fraught with halachic problems..the great ppskim have debated the matter and have reached different, contradictory conclusions. It is not clear what type of mother is best.
A non Jewish woman would possibly make the child not jewish, for those who hold that the one who gives birth to the baby is considered the mother, and not the egg donor.
To use a jewish married woman is possibly znus with an eishes ish.
The last option is to use a single jewish woman. There are no obvious halachic problems with that, since a man is technically allowed to have two wives, but maybe she would have to go to the mikva first?
Maybe Rachelli felt she is getting on in years and if she will never marry, at least she will do this mitzvah of carrying a baby for a childless couple. Maybe she is just a very selfless person. We see she has a good heart because she offers to marry Akiva, no strings attached.
I don't think Rachelli is the surrogate. That's too farfetched. I have a different problem. I think Rachelli likes Akiva. She's hoping to stay married to him. Someone told me Ayelet Zurer was in the previews for season 3. Elisheva is coming back. They're going to break my heart if they have sparks fly when Akiva and Elisheva see each other after six years and leave Rachelli in the dust. Noooooo
I don't think Rachelli is the surrogate. That's too farfetched. I have a different problem. I think Rachelli likes Akiva. She's hoping to stay married to him. Someone told me Ayelet Zurer was in the previews for season 3. Elisheva is coming back. They're going to break my heart if they have sparks fly when Akiva and Elisheva see each other after six years and leave Rachelli in the dust. Noooooo
Rachelli definitely likes Akiva. You can see it when he comes to her and says "the Askan said I should get married." And she says, "to whom?" Her eyes light up when she says this. . And then he says, "lo barur" and you can see disappointment in her eyes.
Also, she arrives at the Rabbanut in a gown, all made up and smiles endearingly to him as if she is in love. He is uncomfortable, because he is in it just for the show, but she went much further than him. She even got herself a gorgeous shaitel.
She gives him all these loving looks in that scene and under the chupa. She is either acting very well (for the sake of the Rabbis and witnesses to the wedding) or she really likes him. She is truly emotional when they bring the baby out.
A part of me feels that she did it with good intentions, because she has a good heart and wants to help the poor guy out. On the other hand, she is an older single who sees her chance to actually get married, even if it's just for show. Maybe she thinks he will actually have a change of heart and realize he needs her in his life. . In a way she is taking advantage of an amazing opportunity to get herself married, maybe indirectly taking advantage of Akiva who is in dire straits, to get herself married. Because honestly, what does Akiva have to lose? She is a young pretty girl with an apartment and money. She will be a good mother to Devorale...if he can only get over Libby.
I wish they they would have shown what happened after he got the baby and they part ways. You don't see him giving her a get..
As far as Elisheva goes, I'm hoping that Akiva will choose Rachelli over Elisheva. Elisheva had her turn. She made a fool of Akiva over and over. She doesn't deserve him.
So I just watched episode 4 for the second time. And I found it so much fun to notice little details.
1. How perfect is it that it's Giti who calmly takes charge when there is a crisis. Akiva is just sitting there distraught, and Shulem has only unhelpful comments to make. Nuchem curses at Akiva for allowing Devorahle to fall into the hands of the "tzionim". But Gitti is able to calmly figure out what to do and to give Akiva chizzuk that it'll all work out, while telling her father to be patient. She is no stranger to crises, and handles them like a pro.
2. Chanina is insistent that no one knows about the surrogacy, not because he is trying to protect Ruchami's dignity. It is because he knows that the surrogacy is a huge compromise in halacha and he is mortified that people should know that he did such a thing.
The problem with Chanina is that although he got a heter from his Rosh Yeshiva, he really isn't ok with it. He feels that he is still being over on halacha. This is a very big problem. When someone is told to do something lehalacha, it is considered a mitzvah. For example if a person gets a heter to eat on Yom Kippur for medical reasons, he should feel it is a mitzvah, not an aveira. This was a big mistake on Chanina's part. By the same token, if a person takes a questionable bedika to a rav, thinking it's probably not good, and the rav says it's good, he is supposed to accept it, not think he's really sinning by being with his wife! Its basic Emunas chachamim.
This is the same thing here. No wonder Ruchami was so mad at him. She doesn't want to take part in a surrogacy when her husband looks at it as if he is compromising his values. Then she tells him, "fine I'll cancel the whole thing!" And she looks at him, hoping to hear him say, "No, don't!" But he doesn't and that is like a dagger to her heart, because that's when she knows for sure that he never really wanted to do this.
On the other hand, when Ruchami later tells him that the pregnancy took, and the baby is on it's way, Chanina seems visibly moved and happy. I think she was testing his reaction. She is sad/confused that she went ahead and cancelled, now that she sees Chanina's reaction.
3. I noticed how, when Akiva and Shulem are sitting by this Boim guy trying to figure out what to do, Boim says it would be great if you can marry someone. Shulem immediately says, nu, let's find a woman who will say she is married to him. Shulem has a very distant relationship with the truth. He is very quick to lie when it suits him, and this is just onr example of many.
4. When Nechama tells Shulem that she reconsidered and would like to see if they could be a couple, the reason she gives is because she is lonely. Shulem
would have loved to hear her say that she is considering him because she thinks he is a special person. But he was happy to take what he got.
He offers to get a special cheesecake from Brizel. Is that the same cake he got for that widow in the first season? Anyone remember?
5. It's a bit strange to me that Akiva never calls Racheli before coming over. Every time he knocks on her door, she is not expecting him. Since they all have phones, I find that a bit unrealistic.
6. Does anyone know what that poem was about that Nechama read at the kever? It made Shulem tear up.
7. I don't get why the guy at the rabbanut kept saying "hatznea leches". It made sense in the context of keeping a wedding small. But he kept saying it every minute, like that there was only one sheet left in the printer. What am I missing here?
Gitty calmly takes over when there’s a crisis- because it’s not her crisis! She doesn’t handle crises in her own family well. She completely fell apart and went into a depression when Lippe gave her baby the name Zelig. She lost it when she found out the girl her son fell in love with was from a different background. This isn’t her crisis and it’s a great opportunity for her to play bossy big sister.
Chanina’s hetter is the strangest heter ever. His rosh Yeshiva tells him it’s assur, but since he (Chanina) is so full of Torah he should decide and whatever he decides is okay because it comes from Torah. That’s not how real poskim decide halachic rulings. You can’t go and explain how such a hetter should be handled by comparing it to a heter in real life regarding a questionable bedika. It’s like figuring out how to fly a plane by reading Peter Pan. No connection.
Sorry I don’t have time to address all your other points. It does seem we’re both enjoying the Shtisels!
Rachelli definitely likes Akiva. You can see it when he comes to her and says "the Askan said I should get married." And she says, "to whom?" Her eyes light up when she says this. . And then he says, "lo barur" and you can see disappointment in her eyes.
Also, she arrives at the Rabbanut in a gown, all made up and smiles endearingly to him as if she is in love. He is uncomfortable, because he is in it just for the show, but she went much further than him. She even got herself a gorgeous shaitel.
She gives him all these loving looks in that scene and under the chupa. She is either acting very well (for the sake of the Rabbis and witnesses to the wedding) or she really likes him. She is truly emotional when they bring the baby out.
A part of me feels that she did it with good intentions, because she has a good heart and wants to help the poor guy out. On the other hand, she is an older single who sees her chance to actually get married, even if it's just for show. Maybe she thinks he will actually have a change of heart and realize he needs her in his life. . In a way she is taking advantage of an amazing opportunity to get herself married, maybe indirectly taking advantage of Akiva who is in dire straits, to get herself married. Because honestly, what does Akiva have to lose? She is a young pretty girl with an apartment and money. She will be a good mother to Devorale...if he can only get over Libby.
I wish they they would have shown what happened after he got the baby and they part ways. You don't see him giving her a get..
As far as Elisheva goes, I'm hoping that Akiva will choose Rachelli over Elisheva. Elisheva had her turn. She made a fool of Akiva over and over. She doesn't deserve him.
I agree with every observation you made here. You and I are both rooting for Rachelli. Now we have to hope the screenwriters don’t break both our hearts. And hers.
Gitty calmly takes over when there’s a crisis- because it’s not her crisis! She doesn’t handle crises in her own family well. She completely fell apart and went into a depression when Lippe gave her baby the name Zelig. She lost it when she found out the girl her son fell in love with was from a different background. This isn’t her crisis and it’s a great opportunity for her to play bossy big sister.
Chanina’s hetter is the strangest heter ever. His rosh Yeshiva tells him it’s assur, but since he (Chanina) is so full of Torah he should decide and whatever he decides is okay because it comes from Torah. That’s not how real poskim decide halachic rulings. You can’t go and explain how such a hetter should be handled by comparing it to a heter in real life regarding a questionable bedika. It’s like figuring out how to fly a plane by reading Peter Pan. No connection.
Sorry I don’t have time to address all your other points. It does seem we’re both enjoying the Shtisels!
Point well taken about Giti handling the crisis. I just found it cute that they brought her into it to deal with it, as opposed to dealing with it on their own, or bringing in Tzvi Arye. I do think Gitti is great to have around in moments such as these. She may be a bossy older sister, but she is reliable and efficient and knows who to talk to and how to get things done. In terms of how she handles her own personal crises, when Lipa ran away, she handled that pretty well. Sure, in the nights she cracked. But in the daytime she managed to keep it together and get herself a job. She kept the whole story under wraps and tried to be a rock for her children. I think the strength she showed in season one was incredible. But she uses that same strength in negative ways as well when she deals with Ruchami and now with Yossela.
Insofar as the heter is concerned, I see it differently than you. I don't think it was a heter- like do what you want. Sometimes the answer a rav gives has to be based on the subjective account of the person. (Unlike the bedika example, obviously)..sometimes the rav has to take into account the feelings of the people involved. I think a good example would be birth control. For those who hold that birth control should not be taken lightly, the rav would need to hear from the husband and and wife personally why they think they should go on birth control. The "bedieved" situation would be very much based on how they describe their feelings/situation etc.. the Rav was telling Chanina, you are full of Torah, I trust you are not taking this lightly. And if you feel this is a matter of life and death, I can trust that you are right.
So I just watched episode 4 for the second time. And I found it so much fun to notice
He offers to get a special cheesecake from Brizel. Is that the same cake he got for that widow in the first season? Anyone remember?
e?
I do because I watched season 1 and 2 a million times 😊
It‘s not the same cake. He‘s got a stollen, a traditional German cake for the winter holiday that has dry fruits and rum in it.
It looked like a spontaneous decision. Shulem actually went to makolet to buy soup in a cup because he an Kiwe had an argument and are not living together so that he‘s got nobody to cook for him. He asks „how much is the monosodium“ buying soup and suddenly sees the cake and is asking what is it and why so expensive.
I do because I watched season 1 and 2 a million times 😊
It‘s not the same cake. He‘s got a stollen, a traditional German cake for the winter holiday that has dry fruits and rum in it.
It looked like a spontaneous decision. Shulem actually went to makolet to buy soup in a cup because he an Kiwe had an argument and are not living together so that he‘s got nobody to cook for him. He asks „how much is the monosodium“ buying soup and suddenly sees the cake and is asking what is it and why so expensive.
Lol!. Thanks for this. Yeah I remember this. And I remember there was this special cake. So I thought maybe its his special "first date " cake.
I don't think Rachelli is the surrogate. That's too farfetched. I have a different problem. I think Rachelli likes Akiva. She's hoping to stay married to him. Someone told me Ayelet Zurer was in the previews for season 3. Elisheva is coming back. They're going to break my heart if they have sparks fly when Akiva and Elisheva see each other after six years and leave Rachelli in the dust. Noooooo
So strange. I remember davka hearding the opposite and not seeing her in any of the trailers for season 3.
So strange. I remember davka hearding the opposite and not seeing her in any of the trailers for season 3.
Thank you shabbatiscoming!
There's hope after all for Rachelli and Akiva to walk off into the Jerusalem sunset holding hands while pushing Devorale's stroller with their other hands.
There was a chuppah scene???? I missed it! That must have been when my screen went blank. I'll have to see if Sdarot is up yet!!!!
Now, here's what I was thinking about last night (wow how this thing takes over our thoughts!!!! Great that we can shmooze about it here while we wait anxiously for the next episode!!!)
Ruchami goes to another doctor who doesn't know her history. Is the guy an idiot? You see a young chareidi girl (remember she got married at 16 or something) with an IUD. Don't you think she probably has it for a medical reason?
You say her chart seems to be missing some things & you ask about allergies? & you don't ask why she has an IUD in the first place?
I understand it would not be a PC question, but seriously if you have any brains you ought to be thinking, no??
There was a chuppah scene???? I missed it! That must have been when my screen went blank. I'll have to see if Sdarot is up yet!!!!
Now, here's what I was thinking about last night (wow how this thing takes over our thoughts!!!! Great that we can shmooze about it here while we wait anxiously for the next episode!!!)
Ruchami goes to another doctor who doesn't know her history. Is the guy an idiot? You see a young chareidi girl (remember she got married at 16 or something) with an IUD. Don't you think she probably has it for a medical reason?
You say her chart seems to be missing some things & you ask about allergies? & you don't ask why she has an IUD in the first place?
I understand it would not be a PC question, but seriously if you have any brains you ought to be thinking, no??
A gynecologist in Israel assumes that the person across them is a normal adult. He doesn't know when she got married, he just knows her age (which must be at least 21 now).
Usually gyns don't ask women WHY they are on birth control, that's rather private. He asked if she has health issues, and that's enough.
He's certainly a lot more professional than her previous gynecologist, who had the chutzpah to call her husband and share confidential patient information with him (yes I know it was pikuach nefesh, but it's illegal and unprofessional. He can't share an adult patient's information with anyone else, not even her spouse).
Ruchami goes to another doctor who doesn't know her history. Is the guy an idiot? You see a young chareidi girl (remember she got married at 16 or something) with an IUD. Don't you think she probably has it for a medical reason?
You say her chart seems to be missing some things & you ask about allergies? & you don't ask why she has an IUD in the first place?
I'm pretty sure that would be a total violation of her privacy. No one can force her to keep an iud in, and young charedi married women do certainly just use them for birth control for all kinds of normal reasons.
Asking if she has an allergy is latex is farfetched - having experience with this exact allergy, you usually have to warn them a million times before they understand they need to use different gloves.
But not looking deeper into why she wants it out? It's her right.
A gynecologist in Israel assumes that the person across them is a normal adult. He doesn't know when she got married, he just knows her age (which must be at least 21 now).
Usually gyns don't ask women WHY they are on birth control, that's rather private. He asked if she has health issues, and that's enough.
He's certainly a lot more professional than her previous gynecologist, who had the chutzpah to call her husband and share confidential patient information with him (yes I know it was pikuach nefesh, but it's illegal and unprofessional. He can't share an adult patient's information with anyone else, not even her spouse).
Possibly confidentiality laws are different in Israel. Also, when we sign forms, there is usually space to put in other names of people with whom information may be shared. Possibly Chanina's name was on the form, and if so, it would have been fine for him to be notified.
Also, professionalism aside, the doctor is a fellow Jew. He sees an odd situation of a girl who seems to be suicidal. Imho, it was the responsible thing to do, to check with the husband to make sure he knew about it and to discuss it.
Think of it this way: Let's say he goes and takes out the IUD of his adult patient because she said it's what she and her husband decided, knowing full well that this would be an endangerment to her life. And she wants it out against medical advice. But he does it anyway. And the patient dies. Do you not think he would be sued? Do you not think the husband would have a legitimate grievance for not being notified? And even if not, do you think the doctor would be able to live with himself knowing that he knew it sounded fishy but did nothing to stop it?
Possibly confidentiality laws are different in Israel. Also, when we sign forms, there is usually space to put in other names of people with whom information may be shared. Possibly Chanina's name was on the form, and if so, it would have been fone for him to know.
Also, professionalism aside, the doctor is a fellow Jew. He sees an odd situation of a girl who seems to be suicidal. Imho, it was the responsible thing to do, to check with the husband to make sure he knew about it and to discuss it.
Think of it this way: Let's say he goes and takes out the IUD of his adult patient because she said it's what she and her husband decided, knowing full well that this would be an endangerment to her life. But he does it anyway. And the patient dies. Do you not think he would be sued? Do you not think the husband would have a legitimate grievance for not being notified? And even if not, do you think the doctor would be able to live with himself knowing that he knew it sounded fishy but did nothing to stop it?
Confidentiality laws are not different in Israel, I live here. I would be appalled if my doctor called my husband to inform him about anything.
I don't even know how he would have Chanina's number, there is no place at any doctor's in Israel where they ask for your spouse's phone number. It might be at the main secretary, but he would actively have to go looking for it. A specialist doctor at the kuppa doesn't have all your information on the computer screen, he only has the things that you told him. (So a gyn wouldn't be privy to your skin problems, for example. At least not in my kuppa).
I agree the doctor was in a huge moral dilemma there. But had he taken it out , he could not be sued. No one in Israel would sue him for not informing a spouse of his wife's gynecological decisions.
In fact, Ruchami could sue him for sharing confidential info. That could happen.
For all this gyn knows, Ruchami wants the IUD out because she and Chanina are separating. Or because they have bad shlom bayit and haven't been intimate in years. Or because he is impotent anyway. Or because Chanina is having a vascectomy.
These types of decisions are a woman's right to make, and he has no idea of her background situation.
