“YOU AND YOUR PRAYER BOOK CAN GET OFF!”

↑ Fox ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:02 pm

yksraya wrote:

Fox please don't take it to heart when people claim they know the other side of story etc. When things happen, people like to gossip, and each story suddenly turns into a completely new story that is so distorted from the real one.

Not at all -- nor am I the kind of parent who insists that my little darlings could never do anything wrong or make mistakes in judgment. If there are other perspectives, I'm completely open to them and will encourage my daughter to be open to them, as well.

amother

↑ Blush ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:05 pm

number wrote:

Youve come up with a totally different story than fox, who heard the story from the person it happened to. Where did you get these details from and why?

video says clearly crew offers a mask that doesnt slip off and would sit tight. she offered it kindly. (YWN original if was not edited) and daughet admitted maybe it had slipped.

I am frum, I daven, I appreciate davening

but with all that is going on, why bending your head down again to your sidur so they cant see what you do?

You have to show "I am compliant, I am like everyone else".

Dear mother, I suggest your daughter drop this (vs a lawsuit), it will be a chillul hashem.
Discuss with her my ideas how to appease and show clearly compliance, and not instigating.

Threat with calling airline, asking for names, and video taping - clearly got her in trouble.

Make Hashem name loved among others.

Other frum people were on the same flight, they also daven when appropriate, and they got to NYC. They did not keep head in a sidur after a confrontation.

Everyone else - please teach your children how to act among non jews. Be nice, show compliance, difuse tension.

I have been in the classroom for a while. I know the feel of our young to get their rights, file complaints, get their parents to support fairness.

Perhaps we should consider "Drachea Darchei Noam".

↑ yksraya ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:05 pm

Fox wrote:

I understand that. I just like to point out that usually, most of the time, other perspectives come from assumptions or misinformation etc.

↑ yksraya ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:10 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

video says clearly crew offers a mask that doesnt slip off and would sit tight. she offered it kindly. (YWN original if was not edited) and daughet admitted maybe it slipped.

I am frum, I daven, I appreciate davening

but with all that is going on, why bending your head down again to your sidur so they cant see what you do?

You have to show "I am compliant, I am like everyone else".

Dear mother, I suggest your daughter drop this (vs a lawsuit), it will be a chillul hashem.
Discuss with her my ideas how to appease and show clearly compliance, and not instigating.

Make Hashem name loved among others.

Other frum people were on the same flight, they got to NYC. They did not keep head in a sidur after a confrontation.

Perhaps you should say this under your Sn and not hide under amother.

↑ Fox ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:18 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

Dear anonymous Imamother, please take the trouble to read what I wrote. We are NOT pursuing a lawsuit of any kind. We feel it to be counterproductive, impractical, and unnecessary. Why are you accusing her of creating a chillul Hashem for doing something she is not doing?

Once again, the video you saw was not the original confrontation. You have not seen video with the original flight attendant, Erica Green -- because there is none -- and you have not seen video with the second flight attendant, Kimberly. No crew members appear or are heard in the video you watched -- those are gate personnel who were not on the plane.

Nor, to my knowledge, was my daughter's "head in a siddur after a confrontation."

I am perfectly willing to listen to anyone who has specific knowledge of how this might have been handled better or who has specific knowledge of how my daughter perhaps misinterpreted events. That's fair.

But you seem to be making things up out of whole cloth to fill in the blanks, including condemning my daughter for legal actions that I've already stated are not being pursued, and that's not fair.

↑ number ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:21 pm

octopus wrote:

Fox,
you have my sympathies! I just recently had a really degrading experience in the post office. People like to explain unpleasant situations away because it makes THEM feel better that it could never happen to THEM. Bottom line is, there are some very nasty people in this world, and they enjoy a little power. Your daughter was a victim to it. Tomorrow it will be someone else. Your daughter carried herself like a lady in the face of despicable treatment. Enough of these people trying to explain away bad behavior (on the part of the stewardess). Shame, shame, shame!

The victim shaming is bizarre. Even if they’re right and the woman wasn’t wearing her mask properly, there is zero excuse for comments such as “you and your prayer book can get off.” That sort of comment is straight up anti Semitic, and no, she didn’t bring it on herself by wearing a mask improperly.

But I guess the details here don’t matter, if a frum person was mistreated they must have created a chilul hashem and brought it on themselves.

↑ yksraya ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:29 pm

CrazyDaisie wrote:

I was also wondering, concerning anonymity: Why does this lady remain anonymous while publishing the flight attendents' full names?

Because she is the victim and they are the perpetrator? Imagine any hate crime, the one doing the crime will be in the news, but many times the name of the victim will stay private if they choose so.

flowerpower ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:42 pm

I don’t understand why they had to kick a well behaved adult off for “being none compliant” with her mask. Why is she a danger to the pilot? Give a reminder and move on! It’s so easy for a mask to slip off the nose without even realizing it (if it even happened as she claims). This story just doesn’t make sense. You don’t kick someone off just like that! I hope the nasty stewardess is now unemployed.

amother

↑ Sapphire ↓

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 7:59 pm

what number, flower power, and others said

never understood some people's rush to victim blame and attack

as well as take the side of someone behaving inappropriately at best and yes I mean the employee

really strange

no wonder people who are victimized would choose privacy

some people really add assault to injury R"L

and as an aside would think the airline would not take kindly to employee unnecessarily messing up schedule and wasting fuel

amother

Aquamarine

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 8:05 pm

I think both videos were published on YWN. The video begins at the gate after she was told to get off the plane, but at around 1:26 the video seems to change to while she was still on the 1st plane before getting off. It seems to be out of order.

ETA, fox, I’m really sorry about what happened. It would devastate me or my YA daughter if it had happened to us.

amother

↑ Cerulean

Sun, Dec 06 2020, 11:10 pm

amother [ Blush ] wrote:

video says clearly crew offers a mask that doesnt slip6053134819 show compliance, difuse tension.

I have been in the classroom for a while. I know the feel of our young to get their rights, file complaints, get their parents to support fairness.

Perhaps we should consider "Drachea Darchei Noam".

Omg! Does it say or your meant you heard clearly?
I nor anyone lessoning to the tape heard that.

Its never cool to blame the victim!

I apologize if English is not your first or second language.

↑ Raisin

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 1:01 am

It's just baffling to me that a flight attendant would cause a plane to turn around (which must cost the airline a lot in money and goodwill, delaying the flight for other passengers, etc) over something so trivial. My husband was once on a flight where a passenger was behaving really badly and delayed the whole flight over refusing to have his suitcase removed to the hold (there was no more space on board for cabin baggage). At no point did it occur to the airline to remove this person from the flight despite his extremely obnoxious behaviour.

Fox, I am especially impressed that you can see the other side, in how attendants are badly paid and treated. Being a flight attendant used to be a glamourous job, not any more. Nevertheless, on European airlines I have only ever been treated really well.

Regardless, the comment about the prayer book almost certainly means she had antisemitic motives.

↑ sequoia ↓

Mon, Dec 07 2020, 2:02 am

Basically, air travel = no human rights.

I follow a blind youtuber, and she was describing how the TSA agent wouldn’t let her guide dog through, wouldn’t let her mom through, kept yelling at her to “do this, do that, hold onto this”, and wouldn’t let her get a word in edgewise to say, “I’m blind, I need verbal cues.” Just total incompetence and hatred.