Black hat open minded not quite yeshivish with dog brooklyn

amother

↑ Silver ↓

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 10:11 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

Because I have a happy life here. I don’t feel the need to uproot everyone for the sake of individualism. Btw I’m considered an individual where I live and not exactly the biggest conformist. But I have no problem confirming a little here and there if needed.

You must be living a hard life.
What kind of life is this anyway. No dog. Giving up a dog just to have a school.

I mean homeschool if you must but keep thy doggie!

amother

↑ Silver ↓

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 10:14 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

You'd think you would be talking about having a coyote as a pet.

No.
The problem isn't in the dog. The problem is in the understanding (or lack thereof) of what it takes to live in a certain community.

We all make choices.
Some choose to own a dog.
Some choose to live where they live, happily.

amother

↑ Cerulean ↓

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 10:15 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

You must be living a hard life.
What kind of life is this anyway. No dog. Giving up a dog just to have a school.

I mean homeschool if you must but keep thy doggie!

I don’t like dogs 😱
They’re fine to look at from afar or even close, but I really prefer to keep all those germs out of my house. And I could never love one enough to be willing to clean up its poop.

↑ IsraeliSoul ↓

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 10:29 pm

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

By chassidish dog owners you mean chabad chassidish, Breslov chassidish, BT chasssidish or do you mean, Toldos Aharon chassidish?

Was referring to what amother slateblue said about chassidish looking people (with chassidish levush) walking their dogs in RBS.

Obviously a chassidish looking guy walking his dog in Israel is not as bizarre as it would be in American in town communities

amother

↑ Silver ↓

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 10:35 pm

IsraeliSoul wrote:

Well, that's my point.
It is bizarre.

My relatives would be mortified if I would ask them about this but I won't even bother because I know it doesn't exist within the mainstream chassidish community.

The reaction in Isreal to out of the box things is way worse than in the US.

Everything is a mechuah-worthy there. A mainstream chassidish guy that has kids in mainstream schools would get a yelling and a beating and a kick out of everywhere for owning a dog.

amother

↑ Silver ↓

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 10:53 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

The religion itself is not that restrictive, the societal norms around it are often much more unyielding.

You're right. But how do you justify the societal norms of civilization?

Why does a child have to go to school? Why not plant trees?

Why does he have to learn math? Why not learn to build?

Why does the government require all this education?!
What's with individuality?

Why can't I burp into your ear when I pass you on the street?

Who decides what's conformity, normalcy or just plain civilized?

crust

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 11:04 pm

I think what people don't get is something called zoning.

A developer that wants to build on his property still has to have the permission of the local County and State Government even its his own property.

He can't buy a lot in center of Lakewood and start building a 100 story skyscraper because it's my lot so I can do whatever I wish.

Well, if you want to build a skyscraper you'll have to buy property where the zoning allows for skyscrapers.

Is this conformity? Maybe.
In real life this is called המכיר את מקומו.
In real life this is called maturity.

amother

↑ Cerulean ↓

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 11:12 pm

amother [ White ] wrote:

The religion itself is not that restrictive, the societal norms around it are often much more unyielding.

Really?

You don’t find having to wear long sleeves and skirts uncomfortable in the hot summer?

Isn’t it hard to travel when you can’t buy food in many places?

Not being able to touch your spouse for two weeks out of every month isn’t restrictive?

Our religion is literally comprised of hundreds of restrictions. And then hundreds on top of those hundreds.

Don’t you have a problem with all that authority?

amother

↑ Taupe

Wed, Nov 04 2020, 11:50 pm

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I have a hard time with those things but I believe in Hashem and so I try my best to do what He commanded.

I dont believe that I have to conform to all the restrictions that other people want to put on me.

And I'm not sure how anyone can think there's no difference between burping in a strangers ear and doing something that halacha allows and doesnt harm anyone else. Something like owning a dog, or wearing color, or wearing leggings under a skirt while all your skin is covered. Or teenage girls or even women, driving a bike if they nake sure their legs are always fully covered.

There are so many more examples I can give that are against societal norms but I just don't care. I don't have to follow anyone elses arbitrary rules as long as I'm not harming anybody else.

amother

↑ White

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 12:51 am

amother [ Cerulean ] wrote:

I live in town AKA conformity city. I happen to ascribe to the long sleeves and skirt in the summer but that's an example of societal norms and is by no means universal.
I enjoy the kosher food challenge when traveling (please Gd very soon again) and don't mind getting creative with solutions.
And sure, there are some restrictions that are more challenging than others but they come along with the beauty of the lifestyle as well.
Our religion is comprised of 365 restrictions to be exact. But they include some like no killing and no stealing, etc. As for the hundreds piled on top of these, that sounds like you're referring to chumros, which again are not based on religion, but societal norms.

amother

↑ Silver

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 12:57 am

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

I do understand the difference between taking on social norms and taking on authority and halacha that was given by God alone.

I believe that you also understand that on top of you following halacha you also follow whether consciously or subconsciously a certain set of social norms that makes your circle be a circle.

And you do so willingly because you don't want to be written off as weird, out of touch or careless.

What I am trying to say in my previous post is that the social norm of, let's say, giving a child an education is something that a single civilized person and then a group of civilized people decided was a good thing and therefore they started doing it, praising it and then it became "the norm".

Except if someone lives alone in a shack in the Adirondack Mountains we all have a certain social norm.

While my norm isn't your norm and vice versa, saying that you don't follow a certain norm within a certain civilization or that your norm is less stressful than my norm because part of it my norm is giving up a dog for my children's social life, is completely uneducated.

↑ IsraeliSoul ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 1:31 am

amother [ Silver ] wrote:

Looks like you’re talking about a kehilla. A group of people sharing similar values who belong to a specific chassidus or something and have their own school systems.Not the general Israeli neighborhood. (I’m not talking about meah shearim)

There are plenty of chassidish kids in non chassidish schools and although they look chassidish they don’t live the mainstream chassidish lifestyle.

Now this is more common in Israel than the US.

But dogs aside, my point was not about chassidish dog owners. It was just used as an example somebody posted here to point out the diversity of Israel

↑ IsraeliSoul

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 1:37 am

amother [ Black ] wrote:

People should have dogs. Hashem created an animal that literally has the ability to smell human emotions and lower our blood pressure. I find it hard to believe that we are supposed to throw away this gift.

The Hebrew word for dog is kelev, in kelev there’s the word lev - heart.

Hashem created a dog to be man’s best friend.

They are a gift from Hashem, and if your social norms allow it, embrace it.

amother

↑ Cerulean ↓

Thu, Nov 05 2020, 5:04 am

amother [ White ] wrote:

I was referring to derabanans.

And I don’t know if you’re doing this purposely, but to get hung up on the few examples I brought is completely missing the point.

Whatever, I’m done arguing. This may be one of the most ridiculous arguments I’ve had on imamother. Anyone who is frum has to live with restrictions and anyone who wants to be part of a community has to conform to some extent. This isn’t even about dogs anymore, so I don’t want to derail the thread. As usual on this site I don’t believe people’s statements reflect reality.

Enjoy your individualism.