How come no one stopped the abuse?????

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 12:51 pm

Before 100 years ago, it was rare for women to work outside the home.

There was no need for daycare or nursing homes. babies and elderly were cared for
at home. Even if there was hired help, it was in the family home where people were
constantly coming and going.

amother

Periwinkle ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 12:55 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

While this is true, you can't turn back the clock.
Also, in the frum circles where kollel life is widespread, not possible to have this kind of lifestyle.
The government is not going to pay for people to be SAHMS. Not without an insane amount of taxing, that is. Nobody would be ok with that part of it.

↑ banana123 ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 12:56 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

And I am anti-nursing homes as well.

Instead of government paying $$$ for daycares and nursing homes, let them
pay a stipend to FAMILY to care for their babies and parents.

For thousands of years people managed to care for babies and elderly without the
invention of daycare and nursing homes, but now it is impossible.

We must come up with a better solution.

The the family member has to find a job when the elderly family member passes away.

The solution would be an outside caregiver providing care in the family's home. But not everyone has space for that.

amother

↑ Slateblue ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 12:58 pm

It’s true that two parents working was not the norm even in my parents generation- the stay at home mom was almost every family model. And nursing homes were not the norm either and yes before and post WWII families did tend to live multi generationally and help each other out effectively.

#Happymom

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 12:58 pm

The answer is not to keep kids home til age 3 with mothers so that abuse shouldnt occur at babysitters.
Lots of mothers enjoy being out the house for a few hours a day, so they dont feel like a mommy machine and get burned out from their kids. For lots of us, we need the stimulation that work provides, so our kids need to go out.

So what is the solution?

Accountability.

What if every gannent knew that someone would watch a video of her looking after the kids? If they knew that once a week someone would randomly select a period of time and watch the video to make sure the kids were being looked after. Then, I think every ganenet would think twice before raising a hand against a defenseless baby.

Manpower.

And, maons need more manpower. You cannot expect someone to work so so hard, physical labour with minimum pay and still be loving to kids and attend to their tears.

More money to each worker wont really cut it, bec the amount of work expected of each worker, doesnt really allow much time for love and bonding between caregiver and baby.

And, mothers should show as much appreciation as possible to their gannent. That works.

amother

↑ Periwinkle ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 1:01 pm

#Happymom wrote:

Higher wages will help. Because there will be more people willing to work there. More competition to get a job, and people will be hired more selectively. A higher calibre of workers would be willing to work there.
Higher wages is key, no question.
Same situation for nursing homes, too.

amother

↑ Mauve ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 1:08 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

How were life expectancies then? How was child mortality? I suspect that by today's standards, the care provided to both the children and the elderly of 100 years ago would be considered neglectful.

I am nowhere near 100 years old, but in my birth country, many of my contemporaries were left home alone starting at ages 4 and 5, allowed to run around streets unsupervised at similar ages, and frequently hit by parents for misbehaving.

Wikipedia says that USA life expectancy in 1920 was 55 years. How many people do you really think were caring for immobile elderly for decades?

tiedyed4life ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 1:08 pm

The video is awful, they're treating the children like animals throwing food at them and kicking them around. Yes children should be home whenever possible. When society doesn't put any value on the person taking care of young children the lowest of the low is who's going to be caring for them. Being "just a mother" has zero value. Watching and raising children is the job for idiots who can't do better and this is the problem. This is the next generation, the leaders, rabbis, teachers, scientists, scholars and they're being treated like animals because we put zero value on raising them. If raising children was a prestigious job you wouldn't have this.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 1:26 pm

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

The life expectancy is misleading. It averages in the high mortality of newborns.

It was common for people who survived infancy to live into their 70s - even thousands of
years ago.

amother

↑ Mauve

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 1:34 pm

#BestBubby wrote:

The life expectancy is misleading. It averages in the high mortality of newborns.

It was common for people who survived infancy to live into their 70s - even thousands of
years ago.

The majority of people I know in their 70's are at least minimally mentally competent and also mobile. Both DH and I had 2 grandparents each who lived into their 90's and had very limited mobility for years, as well as other issues. None went to nursing homes, but all required paid full time caregivers for years, on top of a significant amount of time from their children. Fortunately, in both cases there were already-retired adult children who could devote that time and who did not have any small children to care for at home.

I can't think of a single person I know who undertakes the full time care of both children and long-term nursing-home-level care for a severely disabled elderly person without extensive paid caregiving assistance for the children or the elderly or both.

amother

Seafoam

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 2:06 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

No, working in a daycare in NOTHING like being a SAHM. They seriously work you to the bone there. You must feed 6 babies all at once, then put 6 babies to bed all at once. Then wash up 6 bowls and serving stuff etc. Then sweep and sponja. Then prepare lunch, then wake up 6 babies and feed them all. Then put them on the floor with toys. In between all this, change each kid twice a day. Then wash up from lunch. Then put everyone back to bed. Then...

All the kids must adhere to the schedule. They must. If one wakes up too early, well too bad, the floor must get sponja'd lunch must be made. If one kid wants to be held, doesnt want to play on the floor... sorry, there are 5 other kids. All the kids eat at the same time, so while you feed one, 5 are shrieking. Then you dump that first one in the crib and go feed the next. If the first one doesnt fall asleep and is crying, well, he'll cry himself to sleep...

I worked for 200 dollars a month doing this (someone took advantage of me.) Yet I would never have punished the kids. Its not their fault the boss or govt is a jerk.

There's more to the story than not enough money. Yes, if I couldn't get to a kid they would have to cry, but that's very different than throwing things at them.

amother

↑ cornflower ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 2:07 pm

tiedyed4life wrote:

THIS 1,000,000 %.

amother

↑ cornflower ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 2:09 pm

amother [ Periwinkle ] wrote:

And this.

amother

↑ cornflower ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 2:12 pm

Taking care of children or any human shouldn’t be handed over to those who just can’t get any other job.
Those people can become construction workers.
Babysitting should be a prestigious job, because it is. Taking care of Hashem’s children is a prestigious job.
And if they get proper care Maybe there will be less mental illnesses and unhealthiness in the world in the next generation.

amother

↑ Tangerine ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 2:15 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

Taking care of children or any human shouldn’t be handed over to those who just can’t get any other job.
Those people can become construction workers.
Babysitting should be a prestigious job.

If this happens, poor people will not be able to afford babysitters. Wealthier people will send their children to expensive, prestigious babysitters. Then everyone's doomed, rich or poor, because their houses start collapsing. They shouldn't have hired those lousy construction workers.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 2:17 pm

amother [ cornflower ] wrote:

Taking care of children or any human shouldn’t be handed over to those who just can’t get any other job.
Those people can become construction workers.
Babysitting should be a prestigious job.

Construction worker is often the male equivalent of babysitter.
You're not going to manage to un-gender either job.

amother

↑ cornflower ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 2:19 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Then something has to be figured out.
Like fir example not only rich people get to have hernia and appendix surgeries.
But being a surgeon is a prestigious job.