How come no one stopped the abuse?????

amother

Tangerine ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:02 am

amother [ Mauve ] wrote:

This is not entirely on topic, but I posted here once that my kids rarely cried or displayed any sort of separation anxiety at daycare drop-off and some brilliant imamother MD immediately popped up to say that this meant they weren't properly attached to me. So if you're a working mom, you'll be told there's something wrong either way. If they cry, they're being abused. If they don't cry, it's because they're not attached.

Because there are so many people in the world, you'll be told that you're doing something wrong no matter what you do. There are people who will criticize anything.

↑ banana123 ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:06 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

I didn't read the whole thread and I didn't watch the video. I'm just trying to understand. this is a babysitting/playgroup setting where parents send their kids, right? if the children are abused, don't they cry every morning not to go? don't they display signs of distress when they are home? were there no signs? did ALL the parents just ignore the signs?
what's the story here?

It's very normal to cry in the morning.
Sometimes the child wants to stay home, and was woken up too early.
Sometimes the child cries but the moment the parent leaves the child loves every second, and when the parent comes back in the afternoon the child doesn't want to go home, because he's having so much fun.
Sometimes there is just an adjustment issue.

It's normal for children to cling to their parents when the parents are out all day, so a child who is extra-clingy because he's being abused will just be seen as extra-clingy because he misses Mommy.

All of the signs can be interpreted in a variety of ways. That's why it's so important to send children who can speak clearly and tell the parents if they are hit or kicked.

Even bruises are explainable as "Shira hit David, but we punished Shira."

Please don't think that you would recognize the signs in your own child. Chances are you would make the same mistake as these parents made.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:07 am

ora_43 wrote:

I can't believe this sexist b.s. got 8 upvotes on a women's site.

And this from a poster who claims to be all for Republican values... Barring mothers, specifically, from hiring people to watch their kids would be the opposite of small government, or freedom to do business.

We mandate certain safety measures - like car seats.

I feel the level of abuse/neglect is very high - whether in daycare centers or by
private babysitters.

Psychology says early neglect can cause lifelong damage. And early abuse - even worse.

Infancy is when the child's brain is forming.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:08 am

banana123 wrote:

That is why daycare / babysitting should be illegal for PRE-VERBAL children.

Minimum 2 years.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:09 am

#BestBubby wrote:

Actually, mothers perpetrate an enormous amount of child abuse and neglect, as well as a significant amount of early childhood deaths.

You're right that daycare centers and babysitters are also liable to abuse, but please don't think that mothers staying home will solve all problems. You'd be better off letting whichever parent is more suited to childcare stay home with the children. There are many fathers who are better at it, and more patient and loving, than the mothers. Let those fathers stay home while their wives work long hours, and the children will do much better than if you'd forced their mothers to stay home with their fathers worked.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:11 am

#BestBubby wrote:

That is why daycare / babysitting should be illegal for PRE-VERBAL children.

Minimum 2 years.

Many children are not yet speaking fluently at two years of age.

And there is a small percentage of children for whom there is no choice, and a larger percentage of children for whom daycare is a better option than being at home (due to a dysfunctional family or extremely low SES).

amother

↑ Tangerine ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:12 am

#BestBubby wrote:

There's actually a lot of corruption in the car seat testing/regulation system, but nobody can challenge it because they'll be instantly accused of wanting babies to be harmed in car crashes.

amother

Rose ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:15 am

Banana123, you are making very good points, and in general, you seem to be a smart, well-though out person?

Can I just understand one thing? You seem to be quite anti-daycare; what did you do with your own children, and what do you recommend for a women who wants to/needs to work?

(Also, just wanted to point out that you Israelis are quite lucky with your 3 month maternity leave. In the US, its 6 weeks.)

amother

↑ Purple

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:16 am

banana123 wrote:

while I do hear that, wouldn't a kid get used to the place after a week or two and then be happy. maybe abused kids also get used to it but not all. this is horrifying to contemplate.
should I be nervous about my kid in playgroup in NY? even if he's happy to go, who really knows. and yes, he comes home with bruises but he's very active...

↑ banana123 ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:19 am

amother [ Purple ] wrote:

Sometimes, and sometimes not. Sometimes the child is used to the daycare but still has difficulty with the actual transition from one situation to another.

Does your child want to come home at the end of the day, or stay in playgroup? I think that is a good measure of whether the child is happy there. But I can't say if it's foolproof.

Last edited by banana123 on Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:25 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Indigo ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:22 am

amother [ Slateblue ] wrote:

It is so sad and terrible to hear on this thread that given this set up and lack of accountability it sounds like it is not as uncommon as I would have believed.
Extremely disturbing. Beyond. Though yes I prefer learning the truth even when so upsetting. I truly daven some good can come out of their tragedy and systemic approach to improve and address this horrid system.

Like nursing homes these are some of our most vulnerable populations! IY"H this will create better system. Those poor babies and families.

I guess these posts do "explain" how such abuse can go unreported and addressed. Unbelievable.

Nursing homes also are infamous for abusuve practices. Crying

↑ banana123 ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:24 am

amother [ Rose ] wrote:

Thanks

I try to be.

I didn't start out anti-daycare. But I don't see how even the best daycare can provide what I want for my children. I think in some countries it's possible to have a 1:2 or a 1:3 ratio, but not here. So that's already one major point against daycare, at least for me.

Later I understood that the issue isn't just that there are too many children per caregiver, but also issues such as abuse, between the children and in some cases perpetrated by the caregiver.

PM me and I will answer what I did. I don't want to out myself.

I know that we are lucky (compared to Canada and Europe we're not, by the way) and it makes me very very angry that the US has not yet legislated mandatory maternity leave for all mothers.

↑ heidi

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:24 am

When my one year old was at a private, highly recommended babysitter with a few more kids, I took him late occasionally to see what was going on.
I came in the middle of the day a few times and stood outside the window to hear what was going on.
I popped in to "drop something off".
Not every day, not even every week, but certainly enough that I hopefully would have seen warning signs.
I think parents need to take reasonable precautions.
And don't tell me all these parents had to work every single hour of every single day.
Call in sick, go in late, leave early just a few times.
And I disagree with banana- if a kid is inconsolably crying every single day he is dropped off the parents should investigate why.

Last edited by heidi on Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:29 am; edited 1 time in total

↑ banana123 ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:28 am

heidi wrote:

When my one year old was at a private, highly recommended babysitter with a few more kids, I took him late occasionally to see what was going on.
I came in the middle of the day a few times and stood outside the window to hear what was going on.
I popped in to "drop something off".
Not every day, not even every week, but certainly enough that I hopefully would have seen warning signs.
I think parents need to take reasonable precautions.
And don't tell me all these parents had to work every single hour of every single day.
Call in sick, go in late, leave early just a few times.
And I disagree with banana- if a kid who inconsolably crying every single day he is dropped off the parents should investigate why.

Of course the parents should investigate why. I never said otherwise.

At the same time, often the investigation leads nowhere, and in most cases the parent knows at least one or two other children where there was no abuse and the crying was due to transition difficulties or jealousy of a younger sibling who "gets to stay home."

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:29 am

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

Nursing homes also are infamous for abusuve practices. Crying

And I am anti-nursing homes as well.

Instead of government paying $$$ for daycares and nursing homes, let them
pay a stipend to FAMILY to care for their babies and parents.

For thousands of years people managed to care for babies and elderly without the
invention of daycare and nursing homes, but now it is impossible.

We must come up with a better solution.

↑ #BestBubby ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:33 am

amother [ Coffee ] wrote:

Of course there is some abuse by mothers.

But there is no question that the overwhelming majority of babies do much better
raised by mothers and not in orphanages.

putting babies in daycare / babysitter is like being in an orphanage for a big chunk
of a babies waking hours.

amother

↑ Rose ↓

Thu, Aug 13 2020, 9:43 am

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Multi-generation homes used to be the norm. There was usually no need for babysitters or nursing homes because the older generation was home with the children.

Where do you get this info from?

You want your 80 year old grandma watching you infant and 2 year old? TMI