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Forum
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-> Manners & Etiquette
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amother
Denim
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 Tue, Jul 07 2020, 1:16 am
We have the same problem. One year it was really bad, both neighbors on either side made a day camp. I was home with toddlers and putting them down for a nap was awful.
Dh didnt believe how bad it was until he tried to work from home one day. We purchased noise machines for every room and kept the windows closed, even on a cooler day, just to keep the noise level down.
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etky
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:26 am
No one else is bothered by the fact that according to OP there is a pool in the backyard?
20-30 kids going swimming? Under whose supervision?
I don't know where OP lives or what the laws are but this might be both a legal issue and one of Pikuach nefesh.
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shabbatiscoming
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:35 am
| etky wrote: | No one else is bothered by the fact that according to OP there is a pool in the backyard?
20-30 kids going swimming? Under whose supervision?
I don't know where OP lives or what the laws are but this might be both a legal issue and one of Pikuach nefesh. | I feel like most people just assumed she meant a kiddie pool (thats what I was thinking) but if in fact she meant a real pool, then the story definitely becomes pikuach nefesh worthy.
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shabbatiscoming
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:38 am
| Blessing1 wrote: | Let me get this straight. You posted that if anyone does something illegal "they better be reported", no mention of a Rav here either, and somehow everyone is fine with this statement.
Yet I nebach say that it's assur to report and I get attacked as if I said the worse thing??
When posters say to do something against halacha they don't need to mention a Rav? Only when someone says it's assur they need to mention a Rav? What's the policy?
This is astounding. I guess not everyone realizes the harsh things it says in the torah about reporting a jew. | Again, as I wrote above, the not reporting was from a different time in history when regimes were trying to torture the jews. There are leniencies in todays world as it is very different.
So to many, because it is different today than from when it was stated in halacha, many people might not find it halachically as problematic.
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etky
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:42 am
| Blessing1 wrote: | | I'm sure that at least by now you know that we're not allowed to report Jews. |
FF is in Israel where the authorities are Jewish too.
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amother
Linen
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 3:51 am
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | And the noise is driving me crazy. There are about 20-30 kids and they are outside all day making a racket. Even more when they go swimming.
How much noise is normal? At what point can I say something? |
'Swimming' doesn't sound like a shallow kiddie pool.
Pikuach nefesh indeed.
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 4:36 am
| amother [ Linen ] wrote: | 'Swimming' doesn't sound like a shallow kiddie pool.
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What then would you call it?
| Quote: | | Pikuach nefesh indeed. |
If it is indeed a real pool, who said there aren't lifeguards?
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shabbatiscoming
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 4:41 am
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | | If it is indeed a real pool, who said there aren't lifeguards? | life guards? In someone's backyard camp? Thats beyond unlikely.
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etky
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 4:57 am
[quote="amother [ Mistyrose ]'Swimming' doesn't sound like a shallow kiddie pool.
What then would you call it? "[/quote]
Splashing.
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 5:24 am
| Blessing1 wrote: | | I'm sure that at least by now you know that we're not allowed to report Jews. |
Right now illegal gatherings literally endanger lives.
Pikuach nefesh docheh hakol.
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 5:28 am
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | | You would think OPs neighbor is the only one doing a backyard camp. I live OOT, and even though it was legal to open daycamps, many decided not to because it would be practically impossible to go along with all the precautions. So all the high school girls (who couldn't go to sleepaway camp), many bochurim and yungeleit, are making backyard camps. Half of the town has 'neighbors who are making a backyard camp'! Nobody would ever dream of reporting. |
Nu, so don't be surprised when your non-Jewish neighbors start blaming you for outbreaks.
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:17 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | life guards? In someone's backyard camp? Thats beyond unlikely. |
In Lakewood 100%.
We rent pools all the time with a lifeguard for girls. I’ve sent my girls to backyard camps that only had a post high school licensed life guard.
It’s not unusual.
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:18 am
Not in America.
My 4 yr old daughters playgroup has a wading pool with 3 inches of water and we call it swimming. The newsletters that come home describe the swimming.
Pretty much any water kids in a pool kids play in is called swimming.
I’ve never heard anyone call the activity in a kiddy pool splashing.
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etky
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:27 am
| amother [ Salmon ] wrote: | Not in America.
My 4 yr old daughters playgroup has a wading pool with 3 inches of water and we call it swimming. The newsletters that come home describe the swimming.
Pretty much any water kids in a pool kids play in is called swimming.
I’ve never heard anyone call the activity in a kiddy pool splashing. |
So 20-30 kids are 'swimming' in a kiddy pool?
For me this evokes a somewhat larger type of pool, but OK....
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Simple1
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:30 am
| etky wrote: | So 20-30 kids are 'swimming' in a kiddy pool?
For me this evokes a somewhat larger type of pool, but OK.... |
Often they'll set up more than one kiddie pool. or maybe some water toys and sprinklers
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:30 am
| etky wrote: | So 20-30 kids are 'swimming' in a kiddy pool?
OK... |
My dd is with almost 20 kids. They use 2 very wide kiddy pools and the kids are thrilled. It’s emptied as soon as swimming is over.
There are also 2 water tables for those that don’t swim.
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avrahamama
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:34 am
| shabbatiscoming wrote: | | life guards? In someone's backyard camp? Thats beyond unlikely. |
Every single backyard camp in my neighborhood has a certified lifeguard. The parents all said that if their teens want to make a backyard camp they need to get certified or bring on a friend that is certified. One even called me and asked me to give swim instruction to their littles. I dont know a single person who owns a pool and would open their yard with a pool to 20 little children without any proper supervision.
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WhatFor
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:36 am
PSA since it hasn't been mentioned and this thread has already been derailed every which way:
Children absolutely have to be supervised in a kiddy pool, same way as they would have to be in a bath. The more kids, the greater the risk, the more staff is required. Yes, even if only a few inches of water.
Carry on.
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:42 am
| WhatFor wrote: | PSA since it hasn't been mentioned and this thread has already been derailed every which way:
Children absolutely have to be supervised in a kiddy pool, same way as they would have to be in a bath. The more kids, the greater the risk, the more staff is required. Yes, even if only a few inches of water.
Carry on. |
Of course. But I trust the counselors to watch (one of the things I research before hand). I don’t expect them to hire lifeguards.
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amother
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Tue, Jul 07 2020, 7:48 am
So much side controversy from posters, not OP, about a simple backyard camp in the US? This year?
The vast majority of us are not stupid. Not people running the camps and not parents sending.
Kiddie pools, sprinklers, pools obviously require extreme supervision. Lifeguards are hired for real swimming. Often small groups swim at different times etc. Whatever makes sense for safety is what is done. Please don't tell me about some anecdotal one time someone you heard of didn't do that. If so, then don't send there etc. We live here and know what's going on.
(one time a non jewish worker told me he never understood why neighbors particularly if all jewish would ever call the police on each other particularly without speaking to each other first -- made a huge impression on me)
I am so sorry Op that the noise level is an issue. I or DH would talk calmly to the neighbors/the parents and see if there is anything they can do to address your real concerns.
Depending upon the yard sometimes they can move a bit or now that the playgrounds have finally opened perhaps spend some time there. And maybe some quiet craft time can be coordinated with times that work better for you as well. I would also want to find out how long the camp is scheduled to run. Again, some backyard camps are for only a week where we live.
Also many camps shortened their days here. What are the hours of this camp?
What is their plan for rainy days? Maybe they can safely utilize that space now as well to mitigate the noise level.
This is a crazy and challenging year for everyone. Most camps were not able to open. Most teens lost their jobs. People are trying our best to make things work best in a safe way.
Everyone is on edge. Kids and parents need to move forward in a safe way.
We are all in this together.
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