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amother
OP
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 Mon, Jul 06 2020, 2:20 pm
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If people are struggling, why support married kids who are learning? If someone has enough so support than why not, but if someone is struggling, why give a married child support? Why can't you explain to your children you're sorry but can't do it right now? So your child won't marry or be a learner? Is that so terrible? They can learn and work. Shidduchim are from Hashem, He can find a shidduch whether you offer support or not.
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zaq
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:18 pm
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While I'm with you all the way, as long as they're not asking me for a handout, it's really not my business. People are martyrs to their kids in other ways, too. But to answer your question, it's all about peer pressure.
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Chayalle
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:25 pm
There are plenty of young women who marry learning boys and are working to support them, without much parental support, if any. The alternative to parental support does not automatically equal working. I'm not sure why you jump straight from no support to not being a learner or marrying one.
Signed, Kollel wife of over 20 years without parents financial support
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SixOfWands
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:38 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | If people are struggling, why support married kids who are learning? If someone has enough so support than why not, but if someone is struggling, why give a married child support? Why can't you explain to your children you're sorry but can't do it right now? So your child won't marry or be a learner? Is that so terrible? They can learn and work. Shidduchim are from Hashem, He can find a shidduch whether you offer support or not. |
Not my circus, not my monkeys. But:
(1) We all have to do our histadlus, not sit back and let Hashem take care of it all. So people believe that offering some level of support is histadlus.
(2) Some people do believe that its a basic to support learning kids. You wouldn't say "you're struggling, why not put her in Walmart jeans and tank tops." You wouldn't say "you're struggling, put your teen in public school" (although I might). For some people, supporting young marrieds is the same. My equivalent is supporting kids through college. We struggle to do it because we think its a basic level of support, while others may not.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:48 pm
| Chayalle wrote: | There are plenty of young women who marry learning boys and are working to support them, without much parental support, if any. The alternative to parental support does not automatically equal working. I'm not sure why you jump straight from no support to not being a learner or marrying one.
Signed, Kollel wife of over 20 years without parents financial support |
Things have changed. Some parents won't take people seriously if the parents say, we can't help but dd has some savings and a decent (no, not 50K, sorry) job and this is enough for them to figure it out.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:49 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | Not my circus, not my monkeys. But:
(1) We all have to do our histadlus, not sit back and let Hashem take care of it all. So people believe that offering some level of support is histadlus.
(2) Some people do believe that its a basic to support learning kids. You wouldn't say "you're struggling, why not put her in Walmart jeans and tank tops." You wouldn't say "you're struggling, put your teen in public school" (although I might). For some people, supporting young marrieds is the same. My equivalent is supporting kids through college. We struggle to do it because we think its a basic level of support, while others may not. |
This is very gracious of you.
Don't think I'm surprised.
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Success10
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:49 pm
| SixOfWands wrote: | Not my circus, not my monkeys. But:
(1) We all have to do our histadlus, not sit back and let Hashem take care of it all. So people believe that offering some level of support is histadlus.
(2) Some people do believe that its a basic to support learning kids. You wouldn't say "you're struggling, why not put her in Walmart jeans and tank tops." You wouldn't say "you're struggling, put your teen in public school" (although I might). For some people, supporting young marrieds is the same. My equivalent is supporting kids through college. We struggle to do it because we think its a basic level of support, while others may not. |
I just want to say it was super open-minded of you to post this, to argue for a side of the issue that doesn't actually represent the way you do things.
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Chayalle
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:51 pm
| amother [ Purple ] wrote: | | Things have changed. Some parents won't take people seriously if the parents say, we can't help but dd has some savings and a decent (no, not 50K, sorry) job and this is enough for them to figure it out. |
OK, so girls who are looking for learning boys without a ton of parental support won't marry the sons of these parents.
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shabbatiscoming
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 3:51 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | If people are struggling, why support married kids who are learning? If someone has enough so support than why not, but if someone is struggling, why give a married child support? Why can't you explain to your children you're sorry but can't do it right now? So your child won't marry or be a learner? Is that so terrible? They can learn and work. Shidduchim are from Hashem, He can find a shidduch whether you offer support or not. | You are 100% correct. Support should not be a given. And it should not be a stipulation to a good shidduch.
But it is. The system has many many flaws.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 6:02 pm
| Chayalle wrote: | | OK, so girls who are looking for learning boys without a ton of parental support won't marry the sons of these parents. |
I agree. Surprisingly there are still girls who marry learning boys and are not being supported. It's not common, and I'm not sure I agree with it, but believe it or not it still happens.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 6:33 pm
| amother [ Amethyst ] wrote: | | I agree. Surprisingly there are still girls who marry learning boys and are not being supported. It's not common, and I'm not sure I agree with it, but believe it or not it still happens. |
What don't you agree with?
I am sure many parents would love to support but aren't in a situation to. It's not hashkafa, it's just reality.
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tigerwife
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:19 pm
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There are some people who truly believe in supporting Torah. It’s like a Yissacher/ Zevulen relationship.
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shabbatiscoming
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:26 pm
| amother [ Amethyst ] wrote: | | I agree. Surprisingly there are still girls who marry learning boys and are not being supported. It's not common, and I'm not sure I agree with it, but believe it or not it still happens. | Why ever not? If a girl wants to live that lifestyle, why should it ever be assumed that her family must support the husband learning?
There are so many couples where the wife works and supports the couple fully. I think that is how it should be done. And how it was thought to be done many years ago. Supporting from the in laws is a new and not altogether fair, idea. Not everyone has that money and because of that some girls wont be redt shidduchim? Very unfair system.
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chestnut
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:33 pm
| amother [ OP ] wrote: | | If people are struggling, why support married kids who are learning? If someone has enough so support than why not, but if someone is struggling, why give a married child support? Why can't you explain to your children you're sorry but can't do it right now? So your child won't marry or be a learner? Is that so terrible? They can learn and work. Shidduchim are from Hashem, He can find a shidduch whether you offer support or not. |
A girl won't marry a learner??? A boy won't be learning???
Next thing you'll be asking people somethi g similarly outrageous, like, like, I don't even know what to equate such horrible ideas to!!!
/said tongue in cheek
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amother
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:43 pm
| amother [ Brown ] wrote: | | How many kids do you have and do you have in NY or NJ? |
I have 2 kids and live in NYC. But I know I don't represent the mainstream yeshivish world. I do however represent the Yeshiva community I am part of, as MANY of us support ourselves.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 7:47 pm
| amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote: | | I have 2 kids and live in NYC. But I know I don't represent the mainstream yeshivish world. I do however represent the Yeshiva community I am part of, as MANY of us support ourselves. |
This is very impressive and good for you!!
I can't imagine, however, having a job at 23 that could cover NYC rent (assuming in a frum neighborhood), kids' diapers/babysitters/daycare, food, bills, insurance, etc.
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amother
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Mon, Jul 06 2020, 8:03 pm
| amother [ Brown ] wrote: | This is very impressive and good for you!!
I can't imagine, however, having a job at 23 that could cover NYC rent (assuming in a frum neighborhood), kids' diapers/babysitters/daycare, food, bills, insurance, etc. |
*Not manhattan nyc but I didn't want to say which part of the city. Rent on average for a 1 bedroom is 15-1600 maybe 17-18 if its bigger and nicer.
A- we live in 1 bedrooms for a long time!
B- we have good jobs with degrees. (Computer programming, actuary, PA, NP, even regular nurses here do well, BCBA, nyc doe pays well for speech and special ed + insurance, many people go for specialized degrees at night) Yes there will always be teachers and their parents might be helping them. Most probably not with a check a month - more like they pay for stuff).
C- On my parents insurance...
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