To all those that said it’s not true last week..

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Mon, May 04 2020, 12:20 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

No banners needed nor is there a reason to seek someone to blame. Can you accept that this pandemic surprused everyone with its rapidity and virulence and ease of transmission? The situation was the same in every facility ir at least the many that I personally heard from rns and nps working there. Go all the way up and blame Trump or the WHO or China if it makes you feel better. But practicing acceptance and working to flatten the curve might make more sense. Unless you know of a better way to help curb transmission

Ok seriously this is getting old. We're all trying to make the best of the situation and for better or worse I think we're doing the best we can. I hear you, but I respectfully disagree. You really don't expect me to figure out all the ways the ones in power could've helped or improved the situation. It's like we say, you had that 1 job... they pretty much didn't do anything of significance, when really a virus like this had the potential to completely revolutionize every system we've had. Instead they hid in holes and spent most of their time making sure they're protected from lawsuits while making enough of a markup. Dont start with the nurses again im not talking about them, theyve been thrown under the bus just the same. And also yes lets say we found out too late, but by God, it's been weeks and progress is slooooow.
We like to think historically people were lazy, but im not sure any of those in power from our governor to our mayor to those who manage the hospitals have done much to help. Im literally starting to understand those books I grew up with, starring the fickle minded, moody, impossible to predict poritz. We have so many of them now, wemay as well write a new children's book. Hope this will eventually have a happy ever after, but it sure doesn't look like it's coming from them

amother

↑ Linen ↓

Mon, May 04 2020, 12:26 am

also, fun fact. Nyc has a population relative to eisrael. A lot more jews, and even a lot more chasidim, shall I say, independent noncompying included. The chasm between the sick being admitted into hospitals and fatalities, please can someone bring the numbers? Saw it couldn't believe it, although whats really unbelievable is the gross difference in nyc, iirc, its about triple the amount of fatalities, but I need someone to help with the numbers. For those who love numbers... It speaks for itself. The situation in nyc is outrageous and its weird to say otherwise. May as well be living in a third world country

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Mon, May 04 2020, 1:20 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

The person that keeps coming to my mind is achashveirosh Wink

, and I'm NOT talking about Trump.

↑ ora_43

Mon, May 04 2020, 1:42 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

In NYC 22-26% of people admitted to hospital later died.

Numbers for Israel are a bit harder to find. As of two weeks ago ICU doctors were saying the rate was 18-20%, but the fatality rate rose last week.

About 12% of New Yorkers have been infected and 13,538 have died, for a fatality rate of around 1.3%.

Again, harder to find data for Israel, since attempts to do antibody testing in the hardest-hit areas here were unsuccessful. The official fatality rate is around 1.3%, but I would guess the actual fatality rate is lower, probably somewhere around 1%. (most of our hardest-hit areas were hareidi neighborhoods where the median age is 17 or so, so that helped).

(eta - these are the numbers for today. very much subject to change, since Israel and NYC are both only semi-tracking the data at this point. a lot of covid cases and covid deaths may not be included in the official numbers yet).

Last edited by ora_43 on Mon, May 04 2020, 1:47 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

↑ Orange ↓

Mon, May 04 2020, 1:45 am

amother [ Linen ] wrote:

Israel has more Jews that NYC. Did I misunderstand your post?

↑ pause ↓

Mon, May 04 2020, 10:05 am

pause wrote:

I did some research to find "proof."

Here are the numbers of per capita deaths of all countries:https://www.businessinsider.co.....020-4
With Spain topping the list of 38 deaths per 100,000 people.

A quick google search tells me that in 2019 there were 19.45 million people living in NYS.
Another quick search tells me that 18909 people died from coronavirus in NYS.
Do the math yourself. When I do it, it comes out approximately 95 deaths per 100,000.

Totally and utterly inexcusable.

I'm waiting for someone to comment on or dissect this post. Do you not think there is something seriously wrong for us to be having such numbers? Tell me again why or how Cuomo is a hero.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Mon, May 04 2020, 10:08 am

pause wrote:

I'm waiting for someone to comment on or dissect this post. Do you not think there is something seriously wrong for us to be having such numbers? Tell me again why or how Cuomo is a hero.

My personal opinion - completely opinion - is that New York city was infected earlier than other cities. Also it is more dense so it spread more quickly.

It was completely bizarre to me that at the same time that I personally knew multiple communities that were at the time experiencing a corona epidemic, there was not a word about it in the media or from any politicians. Not testing, no attempt at quarantine, nothing.

So it's obvious (at least to me) why New York city got hit so much harder.

Also keep in mind that a large percentage of these numbers are from the nursing homes. Read some other threads that will explain this...

↑ pause ↓

Mon, May 04 2020, 10:25 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

You're making it sound like we had no idea that coronavirus existed, that we are a third world state with no access to healthcare workers from other locations, to medical supplies, and that we didn't know we must keep covid out of nursing homes at all costs. (Don't forget, covid hit nursing homes in Washington state before it did in NYS.)

IrenaFr

Mon, May 04 2020, 10:47 am

pause wrote:

I'm waiting for someone to comment on or dissect this post. Do you not think there is something seriously wrong for us to be having such numbers? Tell me again why or how Cuomo is a hero.

I am from Canada and can’t understand how suddenly Cuomo is a hero , same Cuomo who didn’t do anything to stop the virus in the beginning and allowing this outrageous outcome in New York . I remember his “virus is not a threat , live as usual” in the beginning of March !

amother

↑ Maroon

Mon, May 04 2020, 1:16 pm

pause wrote:

I'm waiting for someone to comment on or dissect this post. Do you not think there is something seriously wrong for us to be having such numbers? Tell me again why or how Cuomo is a hero.

2 things.

1. NYC is the densest city in the country and is the mist difficult to adhere to SD.

2. During the month of January when China was pretending there was no problem and allowing thousands of it's citizens to fly all over and infect the globe, which city/state in the U.S. do you think they were flying into? Wyoming or Minneapolis? I'd imagine the new York gets more international visitors than anyplace else in the U.S.

↑ pause

Mon, May 04 2020, 4:28 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

I'm comparing NYS to other countries, not NYC to any other city, nor NYC to any other state. Paris, Madrid, London are also very well-visited cities, but we don't see that France, Spain, or UK fared nearly half as bad as NYS per capita.

(NYC is less than half of the population of NYS.)

↑ cbsp

Tue, May 05 2020, 12:53 pm

cbsp wrote:

This was very informative.

https://friedavizel.com/2020/0.....nity/

Coronavirus in the Hasidic Community

Frieda Vizel shares her observations, research, and interview with Rabbi Isaac Brach, or the Dobshiner Rebbe, who is the head of the only Williamsburg chapel, Yereim Chapel.

His observations are also insightful.

(most of her article belongs on a different thread but the interview with Rabbi Brach fits this one)

Quoting myself to quote from the article since I realized it was long.

This is from the interview with Rabbi Brach:

Death from neglect:

Rabbi Brach was very animated when he talked about what he saw in hospitals. In his eyes, people were dying from neglect in overcrowded hospitals. “Every patient I picked up looked like a homeless person,” he said. “Not washed, properly fed, nothing.” He said he picked up the bodies, the dirty sheets, he prepared bodies after the ritual bath–this is what he saw.

His view reflected a widespread anxiety in the Hasidic community altogether. Some of the stories I heard from Rabbi Brach I had heard from my mother too. In one example, he said he was called to pick up a body, but there was no body by the name. Just to be sure, he went to check, and it turned out the person was still alive. He said Maimonides Medical Center and NYU were especially bad. He had maybe 100 deaths from NYU, while only a few from Cornell.

I don’t think this is so surprising, because even in non-Jewish stories we’ve heard of neglect in care homes or in other overwhelmed facilities, which clearly contributed to deaths. Rabbi Brach asked: If hospitals were confident in their service delivery, why did Governor Cuomo sign a law that hospitals could not be sued (which you can read about here)? Brach also mentioned the monetary incentives for ascribing patient deaths to Covid-19, but he did not expand, and I think it would take some work to investigate that.

I don’t think he was implying that there was a conspiracy or intent to harm. I think here Hanlon’s razor applies: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” But he was adamant hospital neglect was an issue.

I am in no position to speak to the problems in hospitals or the monetary incentives. I do think it’s valuable to share what people in their midst are experiencing. These reports need to be investigated and reported on. I’m hoping we will get honest accounting down the line.