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-> Coronavirus Health Questions
amother
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 Sun, Apr 26 2020, 3:02 pm
Shloime Zionce is a real person, a writer. Hertzka Halpert is a real person, a BP hatzalah coordinator. Zionce asked Halpert in an interview if it is true that patients are being starved to death,in which Halpert responded in the affirmative.
I ruined my shabbos by reading all these sad first hand reports.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 3:05 pm
I just don't understand. This woman makes a video reporting the most horrible things that is going on in the hospital her friend works in. She says they are murdering their patients. She says they are neglecting them in unimaginable ways. Patients are being left to rot.......But she won't name names and she won't even tell you which hospital.
Well, thank for (almost) nothing then.
In order for something to be done, there has to be a name attached to this. Name doctors and nurses that are committing this murder. At least name the hospital!
Imagine she witnessed an actual murder, assault, or rape and she said "I won't name names or tell you anything about where it is taking place.
Huh??? What use is this then other than to sensationalize a story so we can argue whether it's true, did it really happen, did it only happen only once, is her story exaggerated....
It can also be reasonably argued that by not naming names this woman who thinks she's a hero by coming out with this story, actually has blood on her hands because by not naming names she is allowing it to continue.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 3:06 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | | I just don't understand. This woman makes a video reporting the most horrible things that is going on in the hospital her friend works in. She says they are murdering their patients. She says they are neglecting them in unimaginable ways. Patients are being left to rot.......But she won't name names and she won't even tell you which hospital. |
So she should risk getting sued to spread this information?
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 3:08 pm
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Im not saying cuomo or any specific politicians is using this situation although they probably are. Its almost impossible though that they don't have at least a bit of a nageah here, even subconsciously, they are human. If cuomo can save the dying and the jobless from the bumbling Republicans it can potentially make him into the hero he never could've been without this crisis
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leah233
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 3:13 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | I just don't understand. This woman makes a video reporting the most horrible things that is going on in the hospital her friend works in. She says they are murdering their patients. She says they are neglecting them in unimaginable ways. Patients are being left to rot.......But she won't name names and she won't even tell you which hospital.
Well, thank for (almost) nothing then.
In order for something to be done, there has to be a name attached to this. Name doctors and nurses that are committing this murder. At least name the hospital!
Imagine she witnessed an actual murder, assault, or rape and she said "I won't name names or tell you anything about where it is taking place.
Huh??? What use is this then other than to sensationalize a story so we can argue whether it's true, did it really happen, did it only happen only once, is her story exaggerated....
It can also be reasonably argued that by not naming names this woman who thinks she's a hero by coming out with this story, actually has blood on her hands because by not naming names she is allowing it to continue. |
At least she is willing to put her own face out there and take responsibility and backlash for her accusations.
Conversely, I've never seen any online reluctance to accept Loshon Hora about the general frum world even when the online accusers were completely anonymous.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 4:15 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | I just don't understand. This woman makes a video reporting the most horrible things that is going on in the hospital her friend works in. She says they are murdering their patients. She says they are neglecting them in unimaginable ways. Patients are being left to rot.......But she won't name names and she won't even tell you which hospital.
Well, thank for (almost) nothing then.
In order for something to be done, there has to be a name attached to this. Name doctors and nurses that are committing this murder. At least name the hospital!
Imagine she witnessed an actual murder, assault, or rape and she said "I won't name names or tell you anything about where it is taking place.
Huh??? What use is this then other than to sensationalize a story so we can argue whether it's true, did it really happen, did it only happen only once, is her story exaggerated....
It can also be reasonably argued that by not naming names this woman who thinks she's a hero by coming out with this story, actually has blood on her hands because by not naming names she is allowing it to continue. |
This is really hard to answer.
Anyone remember the two doctors who came forward not long ago to alert the world to the strange, unidentifiable virus killing people at a hospital in Wuhan?
They “died” “of the virus”.
We’re not in China. But she could easily lose her job and maybe she needs to support her family. Maybe she needs to pay rent.
What would you do?
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forgetit
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 4:31 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | I just don't understand. This woman makes a video reporting the most horrible things that is going on in the hospital her friend works in. She says they are murdering their patients. She says they are neglecting them in unimaginable ways. Patients are being left to rot.......But she won't name names and she won't even tell you which hospital.
Well, thank for (almost) nothing then.
In order for something to be done, there has to be a name attached to this. Name doctors and nurses that are committing this murder. At least name the hospital!
Imagine she witnessed an actual murder, assault, or rape and she said "I won't name names or tell you anything about where it is taking place.
Huh??? What use is this then other than to sensationalize a story so we can argue whether it's true, did it really happen, did it only happen only once, is her story exaggerated....
It can also be reasonably argued that by not naming names this woman who thinks she's a hero by coming out with this story, actually has blood on her hands because by not naming names she is allowing it to continue. |
See how you're not putting your SN here? You're going for double anonymity for a post that will most likely do your absolutely no harm.
I see most posters here are going for the same anonymity so its absolutely understandable.
Think a bit about why this woman is going for so much anonymity.
You can also read up a bit about the 'fair and just' whistleblower system, with supposed immunity.
It takes a supreme amount of courage, and there's a lot to lose, to be a whistleblower.
I, for one, would not put myself, nor my family, at risk.
What the FB post is doing, is bringing awareness without setting a specific institution down her back.
I'm sorry to say that a popular account on SM was shut down last week for the silliest reason ever. I don't want to mention the details because I see it as a huge chilul Hashem (and I stopped viewing SM for the heartache all that in-fighting was causing me), but it was very clear that people were using power to shut down the 'little guy'.
Additionally, we're getting way too many accounts from different avenues that line up, so this whole sorry situation is not based on one FB post.
ETA: I didn't check FB and I did speculate a bit about the reasons for anonymity just to address some possibilities you weren't seeing. Since I didn't cross check with the FB poster, the truth may be different.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 4:53 pm
| forgetit wrote: | I didn't check the FB post, so I'm not going to argue point by point.
But see how you're not putting your SN here? You're going for double anonymity for a post that will most likely do your absolutely no harm.
I see most posters here are going for the same anonymity so its absolutely understandable.
Think a bit about why this woman is going for so much anonymity.
You can also read up a bit about the 'fair and just' whistleblower system, with supposed immunity.
It takes a supreme amount of courage, and there's a lot to lose, to be a whistleblower.
I, for one, would not put myself, nor my family, at risk.
What the FB post is doing, is bringing awareness without setting a specific institution down her back.
I'm sorry to say that a popular account on SM was shut down last week for the silliest reason ever. I don't want to mention the details because I see it as a huge chilul Hashem (and I stopped viewing SM for the heartache all that in-fighting was causing me), but it was very clear that people were using power to shut down the 'little guy'.
Additionally, we're getting way too many accounts from different avenues that line up, so this whole sorry situation is not based on one FB post. |
Nothing will be gained or lost whether I use my screen name or not. There's no value in me posting mt SN. I am a poster that goes anonymous 90% of the time.
As opposed to the content of what this whistleblower is saying which loses almost all it's value by not naming names. If I post, " I saw a man in a park trying to get little kids to get in his car. He was offering them candy". But I don't want to name the park or neighborhood. I also don't want to describe the man or his car even though I saw him and I can. My statement as is tells moms to be vigilant about watching their kids in a park. That's great, but what would really help would be if I identified the criminal.
It's the same with the woman's FB post. At this point we all know that hospitals are overwhelmed and some might be mistreating patients. What practical use does her post have if she's not willing to name the hospital?
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 4:59 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | Nothing will be gained or lost whether I use my screen name or not. There's no value in me posting mt SN. I am a poster that goes anonymous 90% of the time.
As opposed to the content of what this whistleblower is saying which loses almost all it's value by not naming names. If I post, " I saw a man in a park trying to get little kids to get in his car. He was offering them candy". But I don't want to name the park or neighborhood. I also don't want to describe the man or his car even though I saw him and I can. My statement as is tells moms to be vigilant about watching their kids in a park. That's great, but what would really help would be if I identified the criminal.
It's the same with the woman's FB post. At this point we all know that hospitals are overwhelmed and some might be mistreating patients. What practical use does her post have if she's not willing to name the hospital? |
What about the Neiman family report on VIN, that's not anonymous, are you dismissing that too? Halpert from hatzolah? Chevra Kedusha? All non sense?
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forgetit
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:02 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | Nothing will be gained or lost whether I use my screen name or not. There's no value in me posting mt SN. I am a poster that goes anonymous 90% of the time.
As opposed to the content of what this whistleblower is saying which loses almost all it's value by not naming names. If I post, " I saw a man in a park trying to get little kids to get in his car. He was offering them candy". But I don't want to name the park or neighborhood. I also don't want to describe the man or his car even though I saw him and I can. My statement as is tells moms to be vigilant about watching their kids in a park. That's great, but what would really help would be if I identified the criminal.
It's the same with the woman's FB post. At this point we all know that hospitals are overwhelmed and some might be mistreating patients. What practical use does her post have if she's not willing to name the hospital? |
Are you debating this particular FB post, or the issue in general? I believe I addressed both issues in my previous post.
So you post 90% anonymous, yet you have so little to lose. I'm fine with that, but why are you having a hard time understanding the anonymity for this FB post?
I don't think you read up on potential repercussions to whistle-blowers yet, have you?
I also posted a link the other day about gag orders in hospitals, and the repercussions for not keeping the gag. You can do a search on that as well, for more help in understanding why people go anonymous.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:19 pm
| forgetit wrote: | Are you debating this particular FB post, or the issue in general? I believe I addressed both issues in my previous post.
So you post 90% anonymous, yet you have so little to lose. I'm fine with that, but why are you having a hard time understanding the anonymity for this FB post?
I don't think you read up on potential repercussions to whistle-blowers yet, have you?
I also posted a link the other day about gag orders in hospitals, and the repercussions for not keeping the gag. You can do a search on that as well, for more help in understanding why people go anonymous. |
Again, there's no value in me posting under my SN. For example If I'm debating on here about whether big weddings are appropriate, regardless of which side of the argument I'm on, the merit of my point will be in it's logic. Attaching a SN to it won't make it more or less logical. Just like what I'm saying in this post right now. It's not less logical because my SN is missing.
On the other hand if I'm calling out a situation of abuse, I need to identify who I'm talking about otherwise my calling out is pretty much worthless.
If I say I have evidence that there is a rebbe somewhere in the world who is very inappropriate with boys in his class. I don't name the rebbe, the grade, the yeshiva, or even the city. Now what? Did that really help anyone? Calling out anonymous doctors in anonymous hospitals doesn't seem to really do much.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:24 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | Again, there's no value in me posting under my SN. For example If I'm debating on here about whether big weddings are appropriate, regardless of which side of the argument I'm on, the merit of my point will be in it's logic. Attaching a SN to it won't make it more or less logical. Just like what I'm saying in this post right now. It's not less logical because my SN is missing.
On the other hand if I'm calling out a situation of abuse, I need to identify who I'm talking about otherwise my calling out is pretty much worthless.
If I say I have evidence that there is a rebbe somewhere in the world who is very inappropriate with boys in his class. I don't name the rebbe, the grade, the yeshiva, or even the city. Now what? Did that really help anyone? Calling out anonymous doctors in anonymous hospitals doesn't seem to really do much. |
Grand idea. Lets discuss anonymity and logic. This will make the whole truth go away.
Maroon, regardless of anonymous or not, these allegations are REAL and still happening.
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forgetit
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:25 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | Again, there's no value in me posting under my SN. For example If I'm debating on here about whether big weddings are appropriate, regardless of which side of the argument I'm on, the merit of my point will be in it's logic. Attaching a SN to it won't make it more or less logical. Just like what I'm saying in this post right now. It's not less logical because my SN is missing.
On the other hand if I'm calling out a situation of abuse, I need to identify who I'm talking about otherwise my calling out is pretty much worthless.
If I say I have evidence that there is a rebbe somewhere in the world who is very inappropriate with boys in his class. I don't name the rebbe, the grade, the yeshiva, or even the city. Now what? Did that really help anyone? Calling out anonymous doctors in anonymous hospitals doesn't seem to really do much. |
For the 3rd time, I don't care whether you post anon or not. Let's not get sidetracked.
When you post about a situation about a rebbe or whatever, you are raising awareness and parents know to look out for the issue. They don't expect all imas to go knocking down that rebbe's door and call him out.
As I said earlier, this FB post is creating awareness about what is going on in many hospitals.
You may choose to use this info wisely, or you may choose to discard it.
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crust
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:26 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | Again, there's no value in me posting under my SN. For example If I'm debating on here about whether big weddings are appropriate, regardless of which side of the argument I'm on, the merit of my point will be in it's logic. Attaching a SN to it won't make it more or less logical. Just like what I'm saying in this post right now. It's not less logical because my SN is missing.
On the other hand if I'm calling out a situation of abuse, I need to identify who I'm talking about otherwise my calling out is pretty much worthless.
If I say I have evidence that there is a rebbe somewhere in the world who is very inappropriate with boys in his class. I don't name the rebbe, the grade, the yeshiva, or even the city. Now what? Did that really help anyone? Calling out anonymous doctors in anonymous hospitals doesn't seem to really do much. |
I couldn't care less what your SN is.
I know that one of these three things are true;
1. You don't live in the NY/NJ tristate area.
2. You did not lose a single person in this pandemic.
3. You are not close to a single person that was neglected/mistreated in the NY hospital system.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:43 pm
During best times I wouldn’t leave someone in many hospitals without an advocate.
Now nurses are over worked, stressed and scared. All the ingredients for a disaster.
I personally know a women who never had covid but was placed in hospital quarantine and was unable to feed herself due to her condition. She died soon after quarantine ended. Her family knew her condition and begged and pleaded to join her in quarantine to care for her. It was denied. I don’t believe it as malicious. The nurses were scared to enter the room. There was no extra staff to feed her - her family would normally do that. I don’t see why it’s so hard to believe that can happen.
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lilies
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:52 pm
| crust wrote: | I couldn't care less what your SN is.
I know that one of these three things are true;
1. You don't live in the NY/NJ tristate area.
2. You did not lose a single person in this pandemic.
3. You are not close to a single person that was neglected/mistreated in the NY hospital system. |
4. You are intentionally being obtuse so this thread keeps going and going with indignant responses.
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amother
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 5:54 pm
| crust wrote: | I couldn't care less what your SN is.
I know that one of these three things are true;
1. You don't live in the NY/NJ tristate area.
2. You did not lose a single person in this pandemic.
3. You are not close to a single person that was neglected/mistreated in the NY hospital system. |
FTR, I believe the accusation. I'm sure what she's saying is true. My point was that because she's choosing to protect the criminal's anonymity, nothing will change as a result of her post.
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crust
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Sun, Apr 26 2020, 6:23 pm
| amother [ Maroon ] wrote: | | FTR, I believe the accusation. I'm sure what she's saying is true. My point was that because she's choosing to protect the criminal's anonymity, nothing will change as a result of her post. |
I agree.
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s a hero for acting like 1 while people are dying and the economy is falling apart