Corona vs Measles | Imamother

amother

↑ Mustard

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 4:18 pm

sorry I am focusing on ACHDUS
not on vax/antivax and yesterdays news or arguments

AHAVAS YISROEL to help stop this magefa!

Please people we need to wake up NOW!

We MUST do our hishtadlus b'gashmius and b'ruchnius!

(FYI there is a 30 year old frum man hospitalized on a respirator from this virus! It is NOVEL meaning UNKNOWN meaning we CANNOT safely make assumptions!)

amother

↑ Tangerine ↓

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 6:48 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

Immunization is the process by which one becomes immunized. There are various methods of acquiring immunity. Vaccination is one way by which (many but not all) people can become immune.

It is misleading to equate vaccination with immunization. There are many vaccines for which immunity is far from guaranteed. And there are other methods of immunization, as listed in the first link I posted.

During the measles outbreak there were people who were vaccinated and immune, vaccinated and not immune, not vaccinated and immune, not vaccinated and not immune. Now with the coronavirus, there are only not vaccinated, mostly not immune, some immune.

During the measles outbreak, all unvaccinated and unimmune were forced into quarantine. However, there were a small number of vaccinated and unimmune people who caught the virus and went out in public because they mistakenly thought, like you, that vaccination=immunization.

The difference now is that everyone is unvaccinated and since we have no one to blame for the outbreak (I.e. unvaccinated people) and can't force everyone to quarantine, we are doing what we can to protect ourselves and relying on Hashem Who Has a plan for each individual regardless of vaccination status. He is The One Who decides who develops immunity to a vaccine, who will be exposed, who will get infected, and who will remain with permanent damage. Everyone should do *their* best hishtadlus, and not force their hishtadlus onto others.

And you are falsely equating immunized, immunization, immunity and immune.

(and "immunity to a vaccine" doesn't mean anything).

And we do have whom to blame for the outbreak if you believe the stories.

amother

↑ Goldenrod

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 6:51 pm

amother [ Aqua ] wrote:

I guess you know better than the UK government who write about the immunisation schedule...

https://www.gov.uk/government/.....edule

As a pp said, immunizations and having been immunized do not equal immunity and immune.

↑ Amarante

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 7:19 pm

I am not sure why people feel compelled to squabble over semantics.

Corona is threatening because it is a new virus - there are no people who have acquired any form of immunity by having had a form of the disease. There are no vaccinations which would impart immunity or at least some form of protection from the disease. There are no treatments available other than attempting to treat the symptoms.

That is why this is different than measles since most communities have a form of herd immunity which prevented measles from becoming completely pandemic in the wider population. People were either vaccinated or acquired immunity from having had the disease and survived. Therefore the "herd" was unlikely to come into contact with the virus and the virus was unlikely to encounter hosts that enabled it to spread.

And people knowingly chose NOT to protect themselves from measles by not getting vaccinated and their decision endangered those who were unable to protect themselves from measles through vaccinations.

amother

↑ Aqua ↓

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 9:54 pm

amother [ Tangerine ] wrote:

Grammar, dear.
Immunization is the act of gaining immunity and once one is immunized, they are now immune.
One is a noun, one is an adjective, and one is a verb.

amother

↑ Aqua

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 9:55 pm

amother [ Goldenrod ] wrote:

Ah, now you finally got it!

Calling vaccinations immunizations is misleading because they do not equal immunity and immune.

dancingqueen

Sun, Mar 08 2020, 10:00 pm

Amarante wrote:

You don't understand the theory of immunization and herd immunity.

When enough people are immunized, the virus no longer has the ability to spread because it lacks hosts. Thus people who truly can't be immunized - the young, the immuno-compromized or those who MEDICALLY are unable to vaccinate are unlikely to come into contact with the virus and therefore the virus dies out for lack of suitable hosts.

Viruses are actually considered somewhat ineffective when their kill rate is too hate since they kill to many hosts and therefore are not able to spread beyond a certain point.

With Coronavirus no one has immunity - there is no vaccine and there is no cure. The most that can be done is to treat symptoms.

If enough of the population came down with Corona - even if most had relatively mild cases - hospitals and health personnel would be overwhelmed attempting to treat the severe cases. And this would impact the ability to treat people with other diseases who need hospitalization or medical attention.

Also there would probably be shortages of medications needed to treat Corona as well as other viral and/or bacterial diseases. Many medications are made in China and so the supply chain has been cut off. Already there are shortages of various medications although the government doesn't want to say which ones for fear of causing panic and runs on the medication by people who don't need it who are stockpiling. Even basic antibiotics which would be used to help prevent secondary bacterial infections such as pneumonia could be in short supply.

Yup. These threads really highlight how comical it is that anti-vaxxers (who are always amother) are always telling everyone to do their research.