Showing more than a tefach of hair

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Fashion and Beauty -> Sheitels & Tichels

1 2 3 4 5 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother

OP ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 12:05 pm

Hello everyone—I’ve been struggling with my level of hair covering and would love people’s thoughts about this.

I’m MO and since I’ve been married I’ve been covering a “kalta” of my hair. And I know other women who cover this much hair or less (some where headbands, etc. or half-tichel).

I’ve really been struggling with why I do this. I know that by Halacha this is not enough of a kisui rosh. Are there any women who also do this level of covering, and if so, how do you personally explain it?

My problem might sound silly because I’ve already said that halachically I know that this is wrong, so the answer is obviously then to do what I know is halachically right, to show no more than a tefach of my hair.

However, I would like to hear from other women who cover their hair in this more lenient way that I described—I would honestly like to know if you, like me, also struggle with why you do it this way.

Really I would love to hear from anyone who has anything to say about this topic and this problem—I’ve only been married for a year now so my habits aren’t set and I’m open to learn more and receive your guidance. Thank you

amother

Brunette ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 1:04 pm

I think you have to be an extremely honest person to allow yourself to do something you feel is wrong.

I’m not here to give my advice on hair covering or anything else.

But most people, afaik, don’t feel guilty about what they do. No one wants to live with guilt. It’s easier to justify and to find good explanations. So I do find your honesty admirable.

You’ll get many responses here, from “no hair should show” to “you don’t have to cover to hair”. But from what I sense, you’re not looking for that. You have an internal sense of what feels right and it doesn’t have to line up with what others believe.

Personally, if I wasn’t up to doing something I felt was right, I’d be honest with myself and Hashem and say “at this point, I can do xyz. I won’t live with the guilt, but when I’m ready I’ll go ahead with what I feel is right.”

amother

Red ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 1:25 pm

I would get off this forum and put it under a limited user MO forum as some people,and we know who they are, as soon as they get bored with the shell thread, that wearing one in your house is going to cause incest and your children to go OTD and fail out of Yeshiva, are going to rip into you, that even a tefach exposed in the shower is sending you straight to gehenem.

amother

Cerise ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 1:32 pm

I have no answer for you, not being part of the MO crowd, but I just want to say that I think you're extremely brave and honest with yourself for even thinking about this and questioning whether what you do is right! Regardless of what you end up deciding, already the fact that you're a thinking person puts you miles ahead of many, many, MANY people I know who just do things because 'everyone else does them.'

My4Jewels

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 1:33 pm

Another Red you made me LOL and I love your response

Sorry I don’t have anything helpful to add here

amother

Bisque ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 1:36 pm

What is a kalta?

amother

Indigo

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 1:39 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

Aymen sister!!!!

avrahamama ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 2:18 pm

If you feel you want to do something new you can take small steps and do it on special days. Like shabbat. Or Rosh chodesh. Or days they take out Torah.

amother

Smokey ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 2:39 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

I heard directly from a gadol in person, that a woman who covers less than a tefach might as well not cover at all. If you care about doing the right thing, then do so. Obviously it’s bothering you because your yetser Tov is trying to convince you to do what you know is right. Hearing from other people who also do wrong, why they did it-won’t help you. Two wrongs won’t ever make a right.

amother

Burgundy

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 2:42 pm

please don't quote that rabbi. I know who it is who said that, its been quoted before and its not helpful.

amother

Sapphire ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 2:43 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Hi!

So I grew up "yeshivish", but I think we secretly weren't all that yeshivish. We saw movies occasionally and weren't wearing tights or anything, but we attended yeshivish schools and my mother always covered her hair. All of it.

When I got married, I assumed I would too, but somehow when it came down to it, I couldn't bear to do so. So I started pushing boundaries. First, taking out all my hair in the front of my wigs, so it didn't look so wiggy. Then, I started also wearing a triangulated bandana as a mock "tichel" to work and around. Then a baseball cap with my hair down. At times, I just disregarded that, too.

I knew it wasn't great, and my parents weren't super pleased, but they figured it was between me and my husband. And he was understanding.

I designated shul as a Must-Shaitel zone, although with hair out. What changed is that I moved somewhere ultra-frum where it wasn't accepted to do these kinds of things. And then one day I really needed Hashem's help on a difficult matter, and I told Him that my korban is my hair, and I will cover it, even downstairs in my house. So now I'm careful to do so, and it was really hard for me, but baruch Hashem I was helped in that particular matter.

It might be your age. I don't judge you at all - it's hard to be newly married and your hair is such a part of our identity. The older I get, the more I realize I actually look loads better in a wig, so that helps too! Your hair thins, you don't have to get it highlighted as often, and you know what? I look stupid in a baseball hat and a bandana! Lol.

Life is a journey. Small steps gets you to your destination. I wish you luck!

amother

↑ Red ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 2:48 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

And we are off to the races!!!!

Anyone know how to add a gif?
The giraffe eating popcorn comes to mind.

Btw, I wasn't kidding when I recommended changing the forum.

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 2:49 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

I heard directly from a gadol in person, that a woman who covers less than a tefach might as well not cover at all.

This is not ok at all. I truly don’t believe Hashem views us this way.

amother

↑ Cerise ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 2:52 pm

amother [ Cerise ] wrote:

Ummm why the hug?

amother

Amethyst

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 3:31 pm

I think a lot of it has to do with how you were raised and the people around you. It's not simple to be taught something and know it is true, but to also see many people around you do something different. Especially if it's most people, or most of your friends or the people you consider to be like you.

IME, as someone who started out very MO and moved to the right to the border of JPF/yeshivish, when something started making sense to me, I got scared, because I would usually take it on within a year or less. This happened with not wearing pants, with being shomer negiah, kol isha, etc. I had a group of honest growers as friends, which helped a lot. When I didn't, I didn't make changes. I kept the thoughts as theoretical. It can be hard to step out of something you've been doing and make a change; people will ask, maybe dh will ask. Even if they are being nice about it, you will nees to not just do but feel a nees to explain, and maybe justify. You worry they may feel judged, that it may be awkward.

Maybe this isn't you, and it's truly about what you think you can handle. But I find that it's what others may say that keeps us from trying to do something.

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 3:33 pm

amother [ Burgundy ] wrote:

please don't quote that rabbi. I know who it is who said that, its been quoted before and its not helpful.

Excuse me but you have no right to dictate who anyone can quote. He was a huge gadol,, like it or night. Just because you don’t want to hear the Halacha doesn’t mean it’s not true.

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 3:34 pm

amother [ Red ] wrote:

And we are off to the races!!!!

Anyone know how to add a gif?
The giraffe eating popcorn comes to mind.

Btw, I wasn't kidding when I recommended changing the forum.

Very nice to poke fun at the Torah and gedolim but carry on. If it alleviates you’re guilt.

amother [ Brunette ] wrote:

This is not ok at all. I truly don’t believe Hashem views us this way.

So you know better than a gadol. Excellent.

BetsyTacy

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 3:46 pm

I am too rusty (and too lazy) to quote you the exact sources (although check out Ketubot 72a), but be assured that covering the kalta is a lot more than not covering, and when we learned kisui sear/kisui rosh, we were told that the halacha to fulfill daas moshe and daas yehudit was full covering (plus or minus a tefach Very Happy

) but that the kalta is a definite halachic concept.

When we learned about the kalta, we learned it was "head covering" as opposed to "hair covering". Back in my day, that was when women wore hat covering their head, but with their hair down as opposed to tucked in. Nowadays, I have seen women use a wide headband to represent a kalta. I have not seen the halachic source for that, and I was surprised the first time I went to a shul to see young married women in the sanctuary wearing headbands as their kisui.

When I was young, old ladies who didn't cover their hair wore doilies in shul as a sign of respect, but I am not sure they were really trying to fulfill the concept of kalta with them. I certainly never asked them!

amother

Sienna ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 4:25 pm

amother [ Smokey ] wrote:

So you know better than a gadol. Excellent.

There is also the possibility that you misunderstood what the gadol said.

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Tue, Feb 04 2020, 4:35 pm

amother [ Sienna ] wrote:

There is also the possibility that you misunderstood what the gadol said.

Not quite but nice try. Maybe you choose not to understand the Halacha.

Page 1 of 5

1 2 3 4 5 Next