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chocolate moose
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 Tue, Dec 04 2007, 8:55 pm
So, in other words, shtark means "extra stuff".
Why aren't LUb cons. "shtark"; we have plenty of extra stufflike chitas, mitzvah campaign, farbrengens ......
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Maya
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Tue, Dec 04 2007, 9:07 pm
Are farbrengens considered a chumra? 
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TzenaRena
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Tue, Dec 04 2007, 9:38 pm
I don't really know what the "shtark' means, but it sounds like something which is readily observed, that is external. There is a saying "We must be careful about what goes into a Jewish KOP as much as, (or is it more than) what goes into the jewish TUP." ie. There's a lot which goes on below the surface that is as or even more important than that which is on the surface.
Yosef haTzaddik was misunderstood by his brothers. They were all tzaddikim, but needed to be secluded from the world ie. worldly matters to preserve their purity and G-dly relationship. This is why the brothers were shepherds, an occupation which allows for isolation and seclusion from society. On the other hand, Yosef was able to be immersed in Egyptian civilization, interacting with the Egyptians even as the Mishneh l'melech , yet not only remain a tzaddik , but as Rashi says he was exactly the same Yosef then as before.
Because the brothers were not on his level, they could not fathom Yosef's behavior and integrity, and wrongly interpreted his actions as lacking, and treated him according to that misperception..
In a similar vein, the misunderstanding that others have of Chabad Chassidus as being "not shtark" is because the depth of our Chassidus is hard to fathom, to the uninitiated.
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mimivan
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Tue, Dec 04 2007, 9:43 pm
| chocolate moose wrote: | So, in other words, shtark means "extra stuff".
Why aren't LUb cons. "shtark"; we have plenty of extra stufflike chitas, mitzvah campaign, farbrengens ...... |
I always associated Shtark with strict...
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mimivan
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Tue, Dec 04 2007, 9:45 pm
| TzenaRena wrote: | I don't really know what the "shtark' means, but it sounds like something which is readily observed, that is external. There is a saying "We must be careful about what goes into a Jewish KOP as much as, (or is it more than) what goes into the jewish TUP." ie. There's a lot which goes on below the surface that is as or even more important than that which is on the surface.
Yosef haTzaddik was misunderstood by his brothers. They were all tzaddikim, but needed to be secluded from the world ie. worldly matters to preserve their purity and G-dly relationship. This is why the brothers were shepherds, an occupation which allows for isolation and seclusion from society. On the other hand, Yosef was able to be immersed in Egyptian civilization, interacting with the Egyptians even as the Mishneh l'melech , yet not only remain a tzaddik , but as Rashi says he was exactly the same Yosef then as before.
Because the brothers were not on his level, they could not fathom Yosef's behavior and integrity, and wrongly interpreted his actions as lacking, and treated him according to that misperception..
In a similar vein, the misunderstanding that others have of Chabad Chassidus as being "not shtark" is because the depth of our Chassidus is hard to fathom, to the uninitiated. |
Tzena:
have a question...the brother's issue with Yosef originated before he was sold in Mitzraim...so how could their issue with him have something to do with his adjustment there? (or is this why they couldn't recognize him...I learned this before..from a sicha?)
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creativemommyto3
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 12:18 am
Thanks for reviving this thread.
Why is it wrong for a woman to drive? I am curious. Not that I do and I don't feel I am missing anything. I just don't have a license b/c I never had the chance and then no need. I guess all the men are the ones doing carpool and stuff.
As long as this thread is open, how do all chassidish types find their own happiness w/o being dependant on their husbands. I ask this here b/c to me they seem the most happiest with their role. Forgive me if I am wrong, maybe I am not exposed too much to this aspect of yeshivish women. The ones I speak to just take it for what it is without searching further.
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TzenaRena
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 12:36 am
| mimvan wrote: | Tzena:
have a question...the brother's issue with Yosef originated before he was sold in Mitzraim...so how could their issue with him have something to do with his adjustment there? (or is this why they couldn't recognize him...I learned this before..from a sicha?) | Yosef's behavior in Mitzrayim was consistent with his character all along.
yes, that's why they didn't recognize him, because they would never have thought it possible for someone to be so engaged in worldly matters and yet be a tzaddik.
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Blossom
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 12:36 am
| mimivan wrote: | | Motek wrote: | | So you define a shtark Chassidus as one in which the woman shaves her head and wears something over her sheitel? |
And doesn't drive...
Sounds like it...but I think it was written way way above, Motek, the distinction between chassidish (including Chabad) and chaseedish (not including Chabad) I.e. hats on sheitels, not driving, shaving etc... |
There are uncovered gorgeous custom shaitels that don't drive and their are covered with hats shaitels that do drive. There are those that shave and also drive and those that don't shave and don't drive. All Different types of combinations. I just thought I'd confuse you a little more .
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catonmylap
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 3:40 am
Do they not drive for idealogical reasons or is it just whether it is necessary to drive or not?
Are there women who want to drive or need to drive that aren't allowed to?
My mo in-laws don't drive either. It always boggles my mind. But it's a living in Manhattan thing, not a religious thing at all.
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chocolate moose
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 10:49 am
If shtark = strict, then Lub are VERY shtark.
We have our own hechsherim, we have our own hiddurim, we have our own levushim, and we have our own yomim toivim.
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Mama Bear
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 11:08 am
having your own yomim tovimdoesnt make you shtark or strict. Youre commemorating yourRebbes' birthdays and yom hatzolahs etc., theydont make you shtarker.
every community has its own hechsherim, hiddurim, and levush, it doesnt makeyou stand out from other kehillos.
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chocolate moose
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 1:19 pm
okay.........
we have our own chassidus and everyone learns it. refute THAT , mama bear !
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amother
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 1:44 pm
I always associated Shtark with strict...[/quote]
I was the poster about Boston not being so shtark. "Strict" was exactly how I meant it. I was talking l'maasedik zachen not philosophy. It is stricter to shave, to always wear something on top of a sheitel, to not drive, to not go out socializing etc. etc.
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Squash
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 1:48 pm
[quote="Blossom
There are uncovered gorgeous custom shaitels that don't drive and their are covered with hats shaitels that do drive. There are those that shave and also drive and those that don't shave and don't drive. All Different types of combinations. I just thought I'd confuse you a little more .[/quote]
I beg to differ. I have never seen a shaitel, uncovered or covered, drive.
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newmom
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 2:01 pm
I've never seen a sheital drive, but then again, I've never seen a beard drive either! 
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chocolate moose
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 3:07 pm
| amother wrote: | | "Strict" was exactly how I meant it. I was talking l'maasedik zachen not philosophy. It is stricter to shave, to always wear something on top of a sheitel, to not drive, to not go out socializing etc. etc. |
Those married women, for example, who shave their hair, might think it's stricter to shave, but not everyone holds that way, and if this discussion is going to "go there", and discuss people's minhogim..........
Seatbelts everyone !!!!
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Maya
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 3:20 pm
| Quote: | | As long as this thread is open, how do all chassidish types find their own happiness w/o being dependant on their husbands. I ask this here b/c to me they seem the most happiest with their role. Forgive me if I am wrong, maybe I am not exposed too much to this aspect of yeshivish women. The ones I speak to just take it for what it is without searching further. |
I think I already answered this in the Chassidish forum.
Chassidish women are emotionally dependent on their husbands, just like most other wives in the world. Even though they take their role as mother seriously does not mean that they don't have a connection to their husbands. These two things are not an either-or; they can both be present in a marriage.
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creativemommyto3
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 3:37 pm
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sorry, I must have been tired when I wrote it again. it's been on my mind a lot. I haven't been sleeping too well lately.
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creativemommyto3
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 3:39 pm
| amother wrote: | | I always associated Shtark with strict... |
I was the poster about Boston not being so shtark. "Strict" was exactly how I meant it. I was talking l'maasedik zachen not philosophy. It is stricter to shave, to always wear something on top of a sheitel, to not drive, to not go out socializing etc. etc.[/quote]
The Bostoner rebbetzin in har nof does wear a hat on top of her sheitel. I wasn't about to ask her if she shaves her head though.I can ask my aunt that.
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Racheli
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Wed, Dec 05 2007, 7:02 pm
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To the amother who has never seen a woman with a sheitel driving--look around Monsey, Brooklyn, New Jersey--you'll see thousands of women with sheitels driving.
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