High School Hashkafa, s/o other side of mechitza

amother

OP ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:18 am

I teach in High School, not Hebrew subjects and I could vomit from the Hashakafa that goes on. They dangle lofty goals in front of impressionable young girls, who will one day be posting here about the "apologetics" they learned in high school. I want to know why this is going on. I will not teach Hebrew subjects because of it. I don't buy into the whole kollel thing, daven three times a day, always wear a smile, never have a smartphone, etc....The speeches I listen to before school and during school. The things the students repeat to me from Hebrew. The Hashkafa questions they ask. I don't think we are preparing girls to have happy healthy marriages, love themselves, accept themselves and appreciate all different types of people. I think we all come out of school and spend the time from 18 to 30 figuring out what this world is really about. This is a vent. I would never open my mouth in school. I hope there are other Bais Yaakovs today that are changing. I really would not want to send my child to the school I teach in. Second vent, why are the all the Hebrew principals and teachers the type with the kollel husband and head in the clouds type. Anyone here teach in a Bais Yaakov. What is your perspective.

amother

Burlywood

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:32 am

We are clearly not preparing girls or boys for health marriages. Just look at the questions and responses here. I often don't respond to posts when I have SO much to say because I don't want to CVS cause someone who is frail to go into a tailspin. I also am often just not in the mood to be hated in by other posters would clearly jump on me for my honesty and commonsense.
The expectations are absurd. These girls (I hope-if some of these posters are more that 25, I am embarrassed for them) are ridiculous. These people need to get a grip.

shabbatiscoming

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:50 am

Yes, it is very sad what some girls are learning in school. And it must be changed.
I didnt go to a school like this so my high school experience was completely different, but it very much does have to change. Badly.

amother

Lilac ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 9:59 am

I stopped teaching HS chumash because I couldn't deal with the hypocrisy of living my life one way but needing to promote a different way. I was ashamed from my students to see me doing differently than I said. Had I spoken more honestly, I'd be out of a job anyway.

chestnut

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:01 am

Our BY system has much to be desired in preparation for real life. I think (hope?) it's slowly changing.
OP, you mentioned about lashon hara - what's wrong with being careful with it? And what's wrong with davening 3 times a day? Girls have time, why not?

seeker ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:03 am

I've been out of the HS scene for a while but from what I recall, the "kollel type head in the clouds" wasn't so much a problem as the "kollel husband supported handsomely by undisclosed sources." Those are the ones that really set up unrealistic expectations/aspirations. I don't have an easy answer because I had some amazing teachers of both the "living on clouds" and "supported handsomely" variety, and to my recollection the supported ones weren't the ones overtly promoting kollel life (I guess they realize how lucky they are?) so I'm not sure what they should do differently. All I know is that there's a serious reality check coming for anyone who takes as their role model a woman with a husband in klei kodesh and a gorgeous house.

Chayalle

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:08 am

I do see alot of teaching that doesn't jive with reality.

I have a relative who graduated the BY high school and seminary system and is considered to be a "top" girl - great student, great middos, etc.... She is looking for a boy who will learn forever, no other considerations. She is teaching, earning bubkes. She has been convinced by her teachers that it will work out, and will not hear any practical suggestions that it might not be easy down the line. She is not someone who is used to living ultra-simply either.....

Her parents will help support her, but I know what a strain that will be for them. They already have an older married daughter they supported, and it took a huge toll on them already.

I don't get how schools can teach kids to take from their parents like that.

(I sometimes feel like I'm better off, being that I don't have alot to give my kids and they know it. They know the buck stops by them, and are much more realistic about who they will marry and the kind of life they expect to live.)

amother

Teal

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:13 am

I know this is going to sound defensive, but I don't remember this from my HS days at all (a BY in Brooklyn). Maybe my school was unique? The values they taught are consistent with the reality of my life today. And I live oot now with a dh who earns a living. I guess what I'm saying is, it's not a universal problem. I can't imagine teaching in a school that promotes unhealthy expectations for married life. I do believe that it's normal to be an idealistic teenager who develops herself spiritually though.

amother

Mustard

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 10:22 am

I've been out of high school for over a decade so it's possible that this has changed. The school I attended offered some college credits for advanced classes taken during our senior year. However, when I requested my highschool transcripts when applying for college they were extremely difficult to pin down. It appeared that they weren't happy with the program I was applying for (hint, not Jewish) and did not want to release my transcripts!
So, yes. I saw a lot of hypocrisy in terms of promoting a kollel lifestyle yet not condoning a career that would actualize that sort of life.

amother

Scarlet

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:04 am

amother [ Lilac ] wrote:

what do you mean by the "hypocrisy of living my life one way but needing to promote a different way?"
what are you ashamed to be doing?
if youre teaching chumash, I would assume you hold by the values of the torah..so are you saying your real life contradicts torah?
can you explain yourself?
I would love to understand more of what is wrong in this system...

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:04 am

chestnut wrote:

Its the black and white of it. I just listed some things. Its the way its given over not the content that bothers me. Very unbalanced. Its almost like these teachers and principals are living on a different planet. I shmooze with some of these teachers and keep my comments to myself. I edited my OP.

ShishKabob ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:06 am

chestnut wrote:

And what is wrong with smiling if you feel like it? I feel like it! Smile

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:11 am

ShishKabob wrote:

And what is wrong with smiling if you feel like it? I feel like it! Smile

You know what I mean. Why arent we teaching kids how to deal with emotions, have honest relationships. We are trying to mass produce robots.

amother

Sapphire

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:11 am

I don't really see it that way. I see it as the years that you can instill ruchnius in a way you will never be able to. I never saw it as a life I must live but rather as ideals I should strive for. People that went to my high school saw it differently and that leads to me believe a lot of it has to do with your personal attitude. It was never rules I must live by.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:13 am

amother [ Sapphire ] wrote:

Depending on the kids natures. Some kids are born much more grounded. I assume earth nature.

↑ ShishKabob ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:14 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

You know what I mean. Why arent we teaching kids how to deal with emotions, have honest relationships. We are trying to mass produce robots.

I'll grant you this. It's true. that's why I don't rely on my dd's schools or my ds's yeshivas to educate them as far as yiddishkeit is concerned. Sometimes what they teach in school matches my hashkafa and sometimes it doesn't. When it doesn't I point it out to them. I'm not going to have my kids think the wrong things just because this is what their teacher taught them if it's not in line with my Shulchan Aruch or other.
I hear you loud and clear. I just have an issue with spilling all our faults out in public like the big bad web. I don't like speaking loshon horah about my fellow yidden.
Loshon Horah means that it's true. Smile

Disclaimer: I still give the schools lots of credit for the good parts. It doesn't mean I give them a free pass or that I'm sending my kids to public school either.

Last edited by ShishKabob on Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total

leah233

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:17 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Second vent, why are the all the Hebrew principals and teachers the type with the kollel husband and head in the clouds type. .

Becuase of the total failure of the non-kollel crowd to open their schools matching their own haskafa and reality. Becuase of the total unwillingness of that crowd to...

With all the real and perceived faults of the Bais Yaakov system the failure of it's critics to create an alternative is a lot worse and a lot bigger failure. Which is why I think that things would be even worse if they were ones deciding what should (not)be taught.

amother

Peach ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:21 am

amother [ Teal ] wrote:

How long ago did you go to school?

Things have changed a LOT in the last 10 to 15 years. Even more so in the last five. I find that my younger sisters are hearing much more black-and-white hashkafa than I did, and I graduated seven years ago.

↑ ShishKabob ↓

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:23 am

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

I agree, I also don't think they hammer in the kollel thing anymore like they used to. They've taken more of a middle road lately I think.

amother

Orange

Wed, Oct 02 2019, 11:24 am

Hashkafa taught to girls in non-BY schools is NO different. Lots of apologetics there too. The students may be modern, but the teachers are not. The rebbeim and moros are sending the same message. You still struggle with traditional gender roles in modern schools.
I find modern schools are just more accepting of behavior that is secular or American, but the thinking is traditional. Egalitarianism in Judaism is a very very narrow path and not accepted by the mainstream.

You must align yourself outside mainstream thought to be successful. 90% of the posters here would not be ok with this. I'm not talking skirt length, shaitels and matchy matchy kid clothes. It's a different theologic perspective. Not an easy task, and a difficult shift to make alone, never mind with a dh and children.