I find this strange....

miriamnechama ↓

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 7:52 am

ds1 was talking yesterday and he said to ds2 you know before you were a baby you were an "ibur" (fetus) I was like shock

so I asked where did you get taht from.... he said the rebbe and he showed me his daf kesher... apparently they are learning chumash parshas mishpatim.... some halacha in context so the rebbe told tehm that. didn't get it cus I don't understand mishpatim myself. maybe it was jsut the translation??

anyways I felt like sayingto him well so were you as like wer all were....

reminds me in teachers training many years ago we were told..."don't ever tell a child you bought the new baby in the supermarket" I suppose when they get older they learn it in chumash. "vateled" etc

hila

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 8:12 am

I am not sure what you find strange.
A fetus is עובר (oobar) .
Parshat Mishpatim deals with damages and how much to pay when one person hits another. If the woman was pregnant and loses the fetus the damages are different than those in other cases. I dont have a Chumash in front of me,but that is the explanation.
I assume the Rebbe wanted to expain the word Oobar.
In halacha it has a lesser status than a live baby.

Does this clarify a little?

↑ miriamnechama ↓

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 8:19 am

I assume so.... jsut goes to show when I leant parshas mishpatim last... maybe years ago... LOL

mimivan

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 8:21 am

miriamnechama wrote:

ds1 was talking yesterday and he said to ds2 you know before you were a baby you were an "ibur" (fetus) I was like shock

I figure my son is going to make the connection between a big belly, new baby, then no bellythe next time I am pregnant , Iy'h, so why not tell them babies come from mommies at the age they learn chumash?

I don't feel this is so terrible. Except that the next time they see Ima with a big belly...yes, that could be a problem...(but by the time the belly is big, it is no longer a secret. Wink

)

↑ miriamnechama ↓

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 9:16 am

right.... taht's whhat I was told too. well by the time I get pg next time I'll just tell him straight out... no sectrets, he's old enough and has seen enough big bellies in teh familly.

greenfire

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 9:22 am

well why would you ever keep a baby a secret from your other kids ...

my dd is older now ... but she has at time wondered why teachers seem to change some of the chumash and navi stories ... mostly cause they don't wanna be that direct or open with the students ...

Yudit

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 9:23 am

also I dont know if it comes in here my son is 8 and a half and is learning gemara berochos one day I over heard him learning with dh that if a woman bleeds she is tomeh for 7 daysie when you get your period so iasked him what do you mean when a woman bleeds he said its from the time ofthe bais hamikdosh and she had to toivel in the mikvah.well I guess the rebbe didint go into too much detail

GAMZu

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 12:52 pm

My friend just had a baby. Her oldest girl is 3. When she asked her mother about the stomach, she told her she ate too much. shock

So I asked if she's not planning to tell her about the baby... she said she told her daughter there will be a new baby, she just told her she'll get one from a store. OMG.

amother

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 12:59 pm

Quote:

My friend just had a baby. Her oldest girl is 3. When she asked her mother about the stomach, she told her she ate too much.

That reminds me, when my son was a little kid he used to tell me to eat a lot so that I should become fat and have a baby!

Blossom

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 12:59 pm

My DD thinks they come from the hospital, which is right, just not in the way she thinks Smile

SingALong

Mon, Nov 26 2007, 10:34 pm

ditto. babies come from the hospital. my DD even came with my DH to pick us up so she remembers seeing the baby for the first time @ the hospital!

triLcat

Tue, Nov 27 2007, 12:18 am

I have really serious issues against lying to children.

When I was in the hospital post-partum, my nephew (age 5) asked how the baby comes out, and my brother first said "it's complicated, it takes a midwife and a nurse, and sometimes a doctor"

When my nephew specified that he wanted to know where it comes out, he asked if it comes out of the mouth or the tush. In the end, we didn't want him to have crazy ideas, so we told him that only eemas have a special place between the tush and where the peepee comes out and that it's a place where babies come out.

But anyway, when you're pregnant, don't you want your child to feel the baby move? Don't you want them to be involved?

I think that people think that any information about their "privates" is dirty and improper, but it's just not true.

Children don't necessarily need to know the details of how the baby got there, but they should be comfortable with the idea that a baby grows in the mommy and the doctor helps it come out in the hospital.

Starhavah

Tue, Nov 27 2007, 8:49 pm

triLcat wrote:

I have really serious issues against lying to children.

When I was in the hospital post-partum, my nephew (age 5) asked how the baby comes out, <snipped>
I think that people think that any information about their "privates" is dirty and improper, but it's just not true.

Children don't necessarily need to know the details of how the baby got there, but they should be comfortable with the idea that a baby grows in the mommy and the doctor helps it come out in the hospital.

TriLcat, I am with you. I think telling your children that you are getting fat when really you are pregnant is wrong. If our children do not know that babies grow inside of Imas how are they ever going to be responsible parents when the time comes. It is ridiculous to assume that a child who does not realize "where babies come from" until they are a teenager or ready to get married will be able to understand the consequenses of decisions that adults need to make everyday regarding their families. It is one thing to shelter your children from the world at large, it is something completely different to shelter them from basic knowledge about their own bodies.

Star Havah

Lechatchila Ariber

Tue, Nov 27 2007, 9:09 pm

I'm confused.
whats wrong with telling a child that the mommy has a baby in their tummy?

Imaonwheels

Wed, Nov 28 2007, 11:07 am

I also have serious issues with lying so I never did. I just told the necessary amt of truth. Don't bring up the subject but I answer all questions.

How did the baby get in your stomach? Hashem put him there.
How will you get him out? In a real ness of a way Hashem makes an opening for the baby to come out. The midwife helps and it makes Ima real tired and the baby too so we stay in the hospital to rest.

When I was a single parent: We want another baby, why can't we have another baby? Because HaShem is very smart and knows that its best for a baby to have an Ima and an Abba at home. To this dd readily agreed.

gryp

Wed, Nov 28 2007, 11:16 am

I never ever lied to my 4 yr old about this, but someone else must have.

He keeps asking me if I remember when we bought his younger brothers. He remembers being in the car when I was picked up from the hospital both times, and he figured that's when we "bought" them. Confused

I've tried to tell him differently but he's sure he got it right.

↑ miriamnechama ↓

Sun, Dec 02 2007, 10:28 am

triLcat wrote:

tril cat I'm with you here but one point since I have boys... I deffinately don't feel comfortable telling them that it comes out from the private part... I don't really want them to have other ideas so I suppose when I next have a baby would just tell them taht it's born in the hospital or not say anythoing about going into labour..... when he needs to knwo he'll knwo. iyh when I will have girls it's a different story, I remember reading once a pg book when I was 12 and saw a pix of a womman in labour ie the actual birth, but you know what I didin't even remember that a baby comes out vbac untill I had to go through it myself.

I suppose it also shows what is important for a child to know or remember he will and if not it'll be forgotten. (don't ask where I got hold of that magazine from!! LOL

)

besides some women deliver by c-section... so what will you tell child then??

I also reminds me of my nephew in elgland, my sister asked him how you have a baby and he said "oh you go to the corner and daven to hashem, then hahsem sends teh baby and you put your hands out and you catch it" (he's 3) Smile

so kids have their own ideas, but I wouldn't gointo exact details!!

My eldest also decided taht he doesn't want a new baby in teh house... he says when I'll be a daddy I'll need to wake up for the baby, so I suppose he doesn't want the responsibility of that even now.... problem is is tahth is mummy and brother want!! I hope he'll forget about what he said, I think it was the pressure of my sil's bris on shabbos and my oter sil kept telling him not to be so roudy, she told him tere are alot of babies here, including her 3 month old baby, and teh newborn's15 month old sister, a baby after bris and a woman after birth. I said to her go and explainw hat it means a woman after birth... he'll never understand cus he's a boy.... and you knwo what I didn't understand it at age 15 when my sister came home pesach with my niece I didn't understand tehn about hormonal changes in teh body and being vulnerable to everything... my father tried to explain and I tried to help....but tachlis onlywhen I went throughit myself did I understand what he meant.

happymom

Sun, Dec 02 2007, 2:12 pm

Quote:

So I asked if she's not planning to tell her about the baby... she said she told her daughter there will be a new baby, she just told her she'll get one from a store. OMG.

im sorry but thats a little over the top wierd and crazy! wow, goodluck with her communication with her daugther on the future! shock

↑ miriamnechama

Mon, Dec 03 2007, 7:20 am

truth I just had this with my youngest just now... I had an appointment with my gyne... and he was waitingor me at the door, ( I took the first appontment.... I figured it;ll go much faster. last time 2 weeks ago I wentlater and waited ages and was runninglate for a friends wedding and he wasn't keen on going then with me so I figured I'd go earlier)

anyways I came down and said hi... was just by the dr. so he asked me which dr?? so I said a dr.... them he gies dentist?? mouth dr?? so I figured I'll just tell him the truth, so I said no a dr that helps mummies have their babies like when you were a baby, he helped mummy when you were being born.... (actually there is some truth... thsi dr did deliver this ds) so he looks at me and my tummy and goes oh so yo uhave ababy in teh tummy??!! I'm like no.... so he said again so when will we have a baby?? I said daven hard to hashem and he was at it again.

suppose there is no harm in telling the truth.... iwell when we do have another baby, he will he it and mummy in the hospital!!!