Boy missing in Forest- Found BH!

JoyInTheMorning ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:01 pm

amother [ Peach ] wrote:

How did he get separated from the group?

Yes. This is the question that need to be asked -- and answered. From the time I was a little girl in a bungalow colony day camp, it was always crystal clear: We had a buddy system while hiking or swimming and during many other activities.

We need to get serious about reinstating basic safety practices.

amother

↑ Peach ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:30 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

Thanks! I was bracing for getting attacked for asking this question, by someone who would ask "Whats the difference, this is l a s h o n h a r a ..." Its gotten to a point that theres always someone on every thread making that remark.

Im totally for refraining from Lashon Hara, but

1- Answers can be given that dont involve Lashon Hara.

2 -Sometimes things have to be discussed to learn from them.

amother

Saddlebrown

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:38 pm

JoyInTheMorning wrote:

There's no system that is 100% foolproof. Mistakes and accidents happen. What system do you suggest that would ensure 100% of the time a mistake doesn't happen? Mind you these are teenagers whose counselors are often 18 years old.

amother

↑ Amber ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 8:38 pm

Chasdei hashem hodu l'hashem!!! Hashem know's we can't handle another tragedy now! I was in tears all day from this, I still didn't get over the tragedy in Monroe. Oh what a relief, bh bh he's safe and sound.

amother

↑ Peach ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:47 pm

amother [ Saddlebrown ] wrote:

Of course no preventive measures are 100% foolproof but we have to do our maximum Hishtadlus.

Lesia ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:50 pm

amother [ Amber ] wrote:

I heard that he needed the bathroom and went off the path without telling anyone.

First cardinal rule of hiking: never go off the marked trail.
I wish camps and schools which take their charges on hikes would be more educated and prep better. They’re really irresponsible. A disproportionate number of hikers in the northeast who go missing are frum Jews.

happy12

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 9:54 pm

Lesia wrote:

I don't think this is statistically true. It's just we hear about the frum ones.

↑ Lesia ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:00 pm

happy12 wrote:

I don't think this is statistically true. It's just we hear about the frum ones.

It is. I don’t live in a frum bubble. I’m an avid hiker and follow all the news outlets that report on hiking conditions and news in the northeast. I also follow Chaveirim’s search and rescue updates, and I’m dismayed at the number of frum hikers they have to rescue.
These camper go out in the woods wholly unprepared for hiking. They’re overdressed, they don’t carry the necessities needed for safety and survival, they probably don’t even know how to read the blazes that outline the trail. And these stories always highlight how little supervision and oversight there actually is to ensure that all boys get home safe.

↑ Lesia ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:05 pm

happy12 wrote:

I don't think this is statistically true. It's just we hear about the frum ones.

LOL to all the people agreeing with this. Maybe you guys get all your news only from Imamother or YWN, but some of us live in the real world.

amother

Azure ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:13 pm

Quote:

More Fun Facts....

1. Estimated number of SAR (search and rescue) missions in US each year: 50,000

2. Percent of SAR operations aiding lost individuals: 36%

3. Percent of SAR operations in national parks to find lost hikers: 40%

4. Duration of average search: 10 hours

5. Average daily cost to operate a full scale SAR operation: $32,000

6. Most likely group to be SAR targets: Men, ages 20 to 25/ 2nd- Men, ages 50 to 60

7. Leading activities requiring assistance: Hiking (48%) and boating (21%)

8. Fatalities: Hiking (22.8%), suicides (12.1%), swimming (10.1%), and boating (10.1%)

https://www.befoundalive.com/a.....5.htm

How many of these do you think are frum?

↑ Lesia

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:26 pm

I said disproportionate numbers, the ratio of frum hikers to their need for rescues.
I also said northeast, which is the NY/VT/NH area. Your numbers are meaningless.

amother

↑ Azure ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:38 pm

Lesia wrote:

I said disproportionate numbers, the ratio of frum hikers to their need for rescues.
I also said northeast, which is the NY/VT/NH area. Your numbers are meaningless.

Of course the proportion of Jewish lost hikers will be higher in the northeast, as there is a larger percentage of Jewish hikers in that area.

These numbers can be quite meaningful, if we compare them to your data sources. How many frum hikers are there annually? How many rescues? And nationwide, how many hikers are there, and how many rescues?

Actual statistics are much more useful than conjecture.

amother

↑ OP ↓

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:40 pm

Lesia wrote:

I said disproportionate numbers, the ratio of frum hikers to their need for rescues.
I also said northeast, which is the NY/VT/NH area. Your numbers are meaningless.

I think what you really mean to say is that inexperienced hikers are more likely to need rescuing and frum people are more likely to be inexperienced.
City people are more likely to be inexperienced compared with country living people.
Frum people are more likely to live in cities.
No big surprises there.

amother

Seagreen

Thu, Jul 25 2019, 10:44 pm

Lesia wrote:

Except this camp is all about survival and the leaders are highly qualified. This is not an ordinary camp. (My son went there a few years ago.)