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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
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urban gypsy
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 Thu, Jul 18 2019, 9:43 am
| allthingsblue wrote: | I agree.
But I also agree that it's unfair to judge people for keeping different, perhaps stricter standards. |
Now we're just at an impasse of "I will respect you if you respect me first"
Let's lower our weapons and hug 
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Iymnok
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 9:50 am
Dh had a business meeting with an investor. When he arrived the man apologized that he hadn’t realized that he (DH) was chareidi and he would have found a different venue. DH said it was fine (it was) and enjoyed his ice cold coke.
No judgement on either side (the wealthy investor was wearing a t-skirt and jeans with sandals). It was a comfortable, successful meeting.
He was respectful of DH, and DH respected where he was coming from.
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allthingsblue
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 9:52 am
| urban gypsy wrote: | Now we're just at an impasse of "I will respect you if you respect me first"
Let's lower our weapons and hug |
Hugs! 
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byisrael
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 9:53 am
Mcdonalds has the additional problem of maris ayin - different people hold differently about but it is legitimate to have different opinions about the acceptablity of sitting in mcdonalds as an obviously frum person.
Salad in Mcdonalds- I doubt cut with the same knifes as the trief? Even if not for sure the dishes are washed in the same dishwashers as the trief- hot steam and bleyot....
And why is it ok to expect secular relatives to understand you can't eat in mcdonalds, but you can't expect frum family to accept that people have different standards when it comes to kashrus. Whats funny is that all my secular are wonderful, as are almost all of my frum relatives - it's just this one "enlightened" soul who is so militantly acceptant of everyone (including the families of PA terrorists who she goes to visit and"emotionally support", the rights of reform to have thier conversains accepted, the rights of men identify as female to use female bathrooms even when they physically look like men ect...) but can't accept her relatives who choose to be a little more machmir....
Sorry I can't understand her - or all the people who think the she is justified in being insulted....
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urban gypsy
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 10:00 am
| Iymnok wrote: | | He was respectful of DH, and DH respected where he was coming from. |
See this is reasonable. It's just one meal you won't die of starvation.
Things get hairier when family emotions and dynamics are involved I think
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amother
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 10:02 am
| byisrael wrote: | Mcdonalds has the additional problem of maris ayin - different people hold differently about but it is legitimate to have different opinions about the acceptablity of sitting in mcdonalds as an obviously frum person.
Salad in Mcdonalds- I doubt cut with the same knifes as the trief? Even if not for sure the dishes are washed in the same dishwashers as the trief- hot steam and bleyot....
And why is it ok to expect secular relatives to understand you can't eat in mcdonalds, but you can't expect frum family to accept that people have different standards when it comes to kashrus. Whats funny is that all my secular are wonderful, as are almost all of my frum relatives - it's just this one "enlightened" soul who is so militantly acceptant of everyone (including the families of PA terrorists who she goes to visit and"emotionally support", the rights of reform to have thier conversains accepted, the rights of men identify as female to use female bathrooms even when they physically look like men ect...) but can't accept her relatives who choose to be a little more machmir....
Sorry I can't understand her - or all the people who think the she is justified in being insulted.... |
Here is the key to understanding her, and people generally. Humans have quirks.
Adding to this - I don't think this woman is displaying a lack of open mindedness here with respect to your brother, she is just being inconsiderate.
She is showing she is not open minded about changing plans she's already set. She's not open to discovering a new restaurant - because she is happy with the one she picked.
Open mindedness is about considering something different, or challenging your biases.
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allthingsblue
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 10:02 am
| urban gypsy wrote: | See this is reasonable. It's just one meal you won't die of starvation.
Things get hairier when family emotions and dynamics are involved I think |
If it was reasonable in one situation, it should be reasonable in the other. If things are getting hairier, the family members need to remove their biases, fears, and whatnot and try to see things for what they are- a family memeber who wishes to spend time with the family while not compromising his personal values.
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urban gypsy
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 10:02 am
| byisrael wrote: | | Salad in Mcdonalds- I doubt cut with the same knifes as the trief? Even if not for sure the dishes are washed in the same dishwashers as the trief- hot steam and bleyot.... |
Unless it's onions or garlic or lemons, it's cold so it's fine
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ectomorph
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 10:12 am
| urban gypsy wrote: | | Unless it's onions or garlic or lemons, it's cold so it's fine |
Or bugs.
You can just get a bottle of water. Nowadays if u see a frum person in McDonalds you assume they just needed a drink.
I believe its ok to drink from the fountain sodas as well.
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amother
Pumpkin
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 10:26 am
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Ever heard of the term FRUM? "U" are in the middle and every one above you is Fanatically Religious and everyone below you is Modern
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amother
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 11:04 am
I am chuckling here whilst reading this thread (and all the other threads about this issue..)
I am from Williamsburg and my headcovering screams ‘Uber frum/chassidish!’ If I had a nickel for every time I’ve been stared down, sneered at or treated like a being from outer space I’d have quite a piggy bank of savings.
(I don’t think I have body odor and I’m told I am good looking and appear put together!)
On the flip side, it is so important to me to always be polite and helpful when approached by someone who appears to have different standards than me, precisely so that I can hopefully erase this negativity (and of course since it’s basic mentchlickeit.) Sadly, I am treated like dirt most of the time.
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amother
Ecru
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 11:29 am
| amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote: | I am chuckling here whilst reading this thread (and all the other threads about this issue..)
I am from Williamsburg and my headcovering screams ‘Uber frum/chassidish!’ If I had a nickel for every time I’ve been stared down, sneered at or treated like a being from outer space I’d have quite a piggy bank of savings.
(I don’t think I have body odor and I’m told I am good looking and appear put together!)
On the flip side, it is so important to me to always be polite and helpful when approached by someone who appears to have different standards than me, precisely so that I can hopefully erase this negativity (and of course since it’s basic mentchlickeit.) Sadly, I am treated like dirt most of the time. |
I'm sorry to hear that. Can you elaborate on how you're treated like dirt? I can't even imagine what people are saying or doing.
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amother
Mistyrose
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 11:39 am
I am with you 100%.
I find that these people are nicer to less frum ones & NOT FRUM ONES . 
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amother
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 11:46 am
| amother [ Mistyrose ] wrote: | I am with you 100%.
I find that these people are nicer to less frum ones. |
You mean, not frum ones?
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urban gypsy
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 11:47 am
| amother [ Linen ] wrote: | | You mean, not frum ones? |
Linen! STOPPPPP LOL
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giselle
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 12:05 pm
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I didn’t read all five pages, and although I think OP makes a good point, I will say that I’ve NEVER been stared at by modern orthodox or secular people. I can’t say the same for those who appear “frummer” than I.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 12:07 pm
| amother [ Ecru ] wrote: | | I'm sorry to hear that. Can you elaborate on how you're treated like dirt? I can't even imagine what people are saying or doing. |
Sometimes it’s the body language, or the look on their face that says it all. Many times I am passed over when asking for help to others standing behind me. And when I am helped, the condescending tone of voice used needs no further imagination.
I was recently at a popular children’s store in Flatbush. The nicest sales lady there WAS the Hispanic help. And yes I was cognizant of how the other women were treated by the Jewish employees. I traveled 40 minutes so that I can shop and was in a rush to get back home so I can make my kids buses. I told my daughter she should not move from her spot in the line for the cashier since we were running very late. There was this woman who kept cutting into the line to keep asking questions etc and I guess she overheard me saying it to my daughter. In the loudest most condescending tone of voice that made everyone’s head turn around she yelled, ‘do not worry, I will not go before you. Do not worry. ’ As if I am the one to blame by waiting respectfully for my chance for 20 mins. U can well imagine I was snubbed even more when my turn came and vowed never to give them my business again (and I was a repeat customer!)
This is just one small occurrence but I experience it time and again. And the Odd thing is, when I personally see others come to shop in wmsbg, I find the sales people giving them even better customer service than for the rest of us. Of course there are always the bad apples but the majority of the pple I’m surrounded by wld never snub, or behave in a snobbish manner towards a woman at the grocery or elsewhere (I’m actually flummoxed that This is true) based on their personal standards or dress code.
I just want to point out that I do agree that adults and kids may stare but it’s just because they are sheltered and this is something they don’t see often. Ignorance and not the best manners combined. But to snub or behave rudely on purpose, I have yet to come across this phenomenon.
Edited for clarity
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giselle
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 12:16 pm
| urban gypsy wrote: | | Seriously. I don't know how to explain this politely but.... checking with a lightbox is a good idea, but clean unchecked vegetables are not treif. And the fact that kosher restaurants wash vegetables with dish soap is so disgusting and I'd rather just not think about that. |
Not to derail, but if a vegetable requires checking, why is it ok not to check? How is it not “treif” if by eating bugs, you’re actually over more lavim than eating non kosher food. Or did you mean they were cleaned properly enough that they don’t need checking according to Halacha? Asking sincerely.
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amother
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 12:19 pm
| amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote: | Sometimes it’s the body language, or the look on their face that says it all. Many times I am passed over when asking for help to others standing behind me. And when I am helped, the condescending tone of voice used needs no further imagination.
I was recently at a popular children’s store in Flatbush. The nicest sales lady there WAS the Hispanic help. And yes I was cognizant of how the other women were treated by the Jewish employees. I traveled 40 minutes so that I can shop and was in a rush to get back home so I can make my kids buses. I told my daughter she should not move from her spot in the line for the cashier since we were running very late. There was this woman who kept cutting into the line to keep asking questions etc and I guess she overheard me saying it to my daughter. In the loudest most condescending tone of voice that made everyone’s head turn around she yelled, ‘do not worry, I will not go before you. Do not worry. ’ As if I am the one to blame by waiting respectfully for my chance for 20 mins. U can well imagine I was snobbed even more when my turn came and vowed never to give them my business again (and I was a repeat customer!)
This is just one small occurrence but I experience it time and again. And the Odd thing is, when I personally see others come to shop in wmsbg, I find the sales people giving them even better customer service than for the rest of us. Of course there are always the bad apples but the majority of the pple I’m surrounded by wld never snob a woman at the grocery or elsewhere (I’m actually flummoxed that This is true) based on their personal standards.
I just want to point out that I do agree that adults and kids may stare but it’s just because they are sheltered and this is something they don’t see often. Ignorance and not the best manners combined. But to snob or behave rudely on purpose, I have yet to come across this phenomenon. |
I'm sorry you feel that you are being treated badly. If I understand your post, you had your daughter wait in line while you continued shopping. That's not considered acceptable in any of the places I shop.
And maybe what you heard as a condescending tone of voice was her trying to accommodate you because she thought that English isn't your first language.
I'm not saying no one is ever rude, just not really seeing it in your post.
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urban gypsy
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Thu, Jul 18 2019, 12:21 pm
| giselle wrote: | | Not to derail, but if a vegetable requires checking, why is it ok not to check? How is it not “treif” if by eating bugs, you’re actually over more lavim than eating non kosher food. Or did you mean they were cleaned properly enough that they don’t need checking according to Halacha? Asking sincerely. |
I said checking with a lightbox. That's not the only way to check.
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