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Forum -> Inquiries & Offers -> Lakewood, Toms River & Jackson related Inquiries

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mig100 ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 1:20 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Not anymore. My sons tuition is over 8k for elementary and many schools are following.

Is that the full rate or reduced rate? If it's the full rate it's still cheaper than anyplace else beleive

amother

↑ Cyan ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 1:47 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

I'm from a right wing Modern Orthodox background (right wing YU). I grew up in Teaneck, which has plenty of gashmius. I also have Yeshivish, Rebbish, and Charedi family (they live in Passaic, Lakewood, Yerushalayim, etc).
I am always surprised when I visit my very very frum family and see the materialism. What I always find fascinating (and off-putting) is that the gashmius has a religious element. It's ok to spend outrageous sums of money on shabbos socks, because it's for shabbos. It's important to have this beautiful sheitel because a bas melech should be beautiful. The gashmius has been incorporated into being frum. It is frum to dress your children in Italian clothing.
Where I grew up, people liked nice things, spent money on nice things, and no one thought it made them a better Jew, just someone who liked nice things.
I look forward to visiting my very frum family because I love them, but also because I find their communities and values fascinating

I find your post fascinating. most interesting post on this thread. it really puts things in perspective

these threads all go in circles- discussing "well if I like nice things and I can afford them -is there anything wrong with buying them?" then everyone gets caught up - debating whats a luxury/ neccessity.

I just took a second and googled materialism. heres what I got

Quote:

"a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values."

if that is what materilism is - yes- its definitely a contradiction to our values.

yes- I know some people like pretty clothes, some like designer shoes, some fancy jewlery, some like decorating their homes, some like traveling.

I can think of individuals who fit all of the above and are NOT neccessarily materialistic. they are simply enjoying life. - which we are meant to enjoy. this world was created with many luxuries. we are meant to enjoy them - not deprive ourselves of them.

at the same time- when we have a society where everyone is busy looking and comparing what they have to others- and running to make sure to keep up - otherwise they feel looked down upon- yes then there is a bit too much materilism here.

not sure if this makes sense- im just rambeling as I think

Anyone see the difference between an indivdual enjoying a materialistic pleasure, and a society that places emphasis on them

↑ Chayalle ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 2:02 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Not anymore. My sons tuition is over 8k for elementary and many schools are following. High school is also much more.
Also all the hud and new ppl from ny in town is driving up rental prices a lot now

I know someone who qualified for HUD a year ago (legitimately, and her husband is not in Kollel) who lost it because she couldn't find a rental. The rental prices have gone up so much that people aren't taking the HUD prices.

↑ mig100 ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 2:04 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I don't understand this? Why couldn't she find a rental? Why wouldn't they take hud?

U meant the owners want more than hud is paying?

amother

Chartreuse

Wed, May 29 2019, 2:10 pm

Well I think the schools should charge because clearly everyone has so much money to spend.

amother

↑ Cyan ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 2:14 pm

amother [ Chartreuse ] wrote:

Well I think the schools should charge because clearly everyone has so much money to spend.

How about charging the same for everyone. Of course if someone can't afford than the child should not be thrown out of school.

The idea of giving dif price based on kollel or not- I'm not sure how that makes any sense???

Does a bottle of milk or rent cost less if ur I kollel???

Everyone should be charged the cost of education for their child. Then tuition would be much lower.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 2:14 pm

amother [ Cyan ] wrote:

It is a problem when it causes people to look down at people who don't have it. It's also a problem when people go into debt or impoverish themselves to have materialistic pleasures.

penguin

Wed, May 29 2019, 2:14 pm

Quote:

Re materialsim:"a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values."

One of our questions in shidduchim was - how do they prioritize ruchnius versus gashmius.

Do you spend your disposable income on enrichment for your children's learning before booking vacations or home renovations?

Is a young lady more concerned with how fashionable clothing is vs. how tznua.

I can't think of more examples at the moment but perhaps this merits a spinoff.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 2:23 pm

mig100 wrote:

I don't understand this? Why couldn't she find a rental? Why wouldn't they take hud?

U meant the owners want more than hud is paying?

Yes. Exactly.

↑ mig100 ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 3:09 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Yes. Exactly.

How does it work? It's not legal to charge the renters the difference?

imorethanamother ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 3:18 pm

amother [ Powderblue ] wrote:

Question: Would you like them better if they said they spent money on nice things because they deserved it? Or they needed some self-care?

I see this as an attempt to channel the money they were given into some kind of higher purpose. Like someone who spends $1000 on an esrog that kinda looks like every other esrog there is.

amother

↑ Cyan ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 3:25 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

im not the one that you were adresssing. yes I would.

I dont know what you mean by deserve it . as far as needing self care- im the biggest advocate of self- care. if someone wants to endulge in a pleasure -wether its an expensive outfit, fancy restaurant to treat themself, relax themself, feel good about themself- I think thats a great idea.

when the whole society - values these things -and everyone has to keep up and feels they are being judged based on how well they keep up with the material standards -thats a very different story

again- see my definition of materialism above. there is a very big difference between an individual enjoying something material and society valuing it.

↑ Chayalle ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 3:30 pm

mig100 wrote:

How does it work? It's not legal to charge the renters the difference?

Correct. It's illegal. This family wants to remain within the law. It cost them their hud.

amother

↑ Chocolate ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 3:43 pm

Chayalle wrote:

This goes on in Williamsburg. Section 8 pays half and the tenants pay the other half. Apartment rent is $4000. There are two rental agreements. This also drives the price up for those legitimately on programs. They don't have an extra $2000 a month rent

amother

↑ Wine ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 3:44 pm

I'm from Crown Heights and have never appreciated my community more than after reading through this and the Monsey thread. It's so diverse that everyone can do their own thing and not be judged (outwardly at least).

↑ southernbubby ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 3:58 pm

amother [ Wine ] wrote:

There are approximately 50,000 frum Jews in Monsey so I assume that you can find your niche here, although there is definitely a high end crowd in Crown Heights too.

amother

↑ Wine

Wed, May 29 2019, 4:00 pm

southernbubby wrote:

There are approximately 50,000 frum Jews in Monsey so I assume that you can find your niche here, although there is definitely a high end crowd in Crown Heights too.

Yes there is, but the pressure doesn't really spread. Everyone does their own thing.

↑ imorethanamother ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 4:00 pm

DVOM wrote:

I’ve always believed that hard work buys pride in one’s self, wins the respect of others. There’s no accomplishment without hard work. .

That is absolutely true. But I think we forget a few things:

Our hard work is negligible. I work full time, and yet many stay at home mothers work harder than me. I earn more than them, but is it really something I can be proud of? There are many women who work three jobs and don't earn much, and that's not winning anyone's respect, somehow, because she didn't do the "right" thing and go to this college or get that degree.

All of this comes from Hashem. I'd like to be like all these posters who come on here to say that they don't have any luxuries and they don't care what anyone else thinks of them. We all have elements of that in our lives, none of us are slaves to society and we have minds of our own. And yet things that I thought I'd never compromise on I find myself giving in to. Those $0.50 bar mitzvah invitations didn't pan out. I spent more. The pipe dream I had of serving cake on a tray and calling it a day didn't happen.

The cheaper clothes I wanted to always buy my kids was derailed when one child threw a massive tantrum over a particular outfit that they wanted, that they couldn't hold their heads up in society itself until they obtained it. I wrestle with children who seem more aware of the materialism around them than I seemed to, growing up. I'm not sure if I'm to blame, our surroundings, or just the inevitable fact that this is quite a golden age for most of us. Should I force them to bend to my will, or give them

Chayalle also said it really, really well. Who among us survives on a carob tree and sleeping on the ground, using half our day's wages to enter the Bais Medrash? Even the not-well-to-do among us has more material luxuries than some of our ancestral kings. We all don't walk the real walk, we all spend on things other people would scoff at. We all tell ourselves that it's different with us, different because, well, we need these things. This is a requirement. I'm actually helping someone else by doing it.

My question is not WHY is everyone else spending so much? Not WHY is everyone else living the high life? Not WHY aren't more people living how I imagine they're supposed to live? My question is, and I wish someone would give me an honest and truly personal answer, WHAT should I stop spending on? Because I've asked sha'alos, and they're not at all what I expected them to be. I think that a particular purchase is stupid and frivolous, and yet I've been told that Hashem gave me this money to spend. But it all seems wrong, somehow.
And no one really talks about this.

How can I be different? How can I take the money God has given me, and use it the way He wants me to use it? How can I teach my children to not need the matching outfits and the headbands?

↑ Simple1 ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 4:06 pm

Chayalle wrote:

I don't know, I guess I'm really guilty here but don't see things the same way. I think Hashem made a beautiful world for us to enjoy. As long as we don't go too crazy, and have a balance - you know, it's not permanent, after 120 we can't take it with us - and also, it's okay to enjoy this world as much as we can.

Like my gardening post. I don't think I have to live with an overgrown lawn and no flowers. I can spend a little to make a pleasant haven for me and my family. And we can mow the lawn, for goodness sake. It saves me money (no gym membership, and gardening is great exercise.)

And who says a bargain means headspace? Maybe your neighbor happened to pass buy the store next to the grocery and saw those matching headbands. Or she saw them when she was shopping for clothes for them - a necessary chore I do for my DD once a season, because unlike her big sisters who could wear the same clothes for multiple seasons, this one actually grows B"AH and her clothes from last year are usually too small. (No headbands though. she hates the feel of anything in her hair - plain ponies it is for us, or occasionally braids if we are in the mood.)

And you know everything is relative, right. Some people would think a colored tablecloth and dollar store items are an extravagance (I remember Simchas of 30+ years ago with plain white tablecloths) the same way you look at your neighbor's extravaganza as over the top.

I think it's Ok to use your money within your means to enjoy life. The problem is when certain things become a standard or a social pressure. I have things I like to splurge on that's purely for my own self care that no one outside my family knows about. That's different than the pressured feeling I get each season to buy Yom Tov outfits.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Wed, May 29 2019, 4:10 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

That is absolutely true. But I think we forget a few things:
...

My question is not WHY is everyone else spending so much? Not WHY is everyone else living the high life? Not WHY aren't more people living how I imagine they're supposed to live? My question is, and I wish someone would give me an honest and truly personal answer, WHAT should I stop spending on? Because I've asked sha'alos, and they're not at all what I expected them to be. I think that a particular purchase is stupid and frivolous, and yet I've been told that Hashem gave me this money to spend. But it all seems wrong, somehow.
And no one really talks about this.

How can I be different? How can I take the money God has given me, and use it the way He wants me to use it? How can I teach my children to not need the matching outfits and the headbands?

Wow imorethanamother I'm impressed with your introspection. I'm also envious that you actually have a rabbi that you feel you can ask these type of questions.

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