Son wants spend same $ on bar mitzva as everyone else

amother

Olive ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 3:12 pm

My son is a good boy and never cared about "what everyonelse is doing".
His bar mitzva is going to be in July, and we are limited in spending, but we were
Still planning a nice weekday seuda for his friends and our family.

Now, my son said why are we being cheap?? It will cost $3000 and I can think of
So many things to spend $3000 on to make my life easier (me n dh both work full time). For me, $3000 is a lot.

I asked my son would he consider it like "nothing" if we "only" make a "cheap" bar mitzva?
He said yea. So, I feel why not use the money for something else and just buy donuts for his class for a weekday aliya???

I then asked my son "how much do I need to spend on the bar mitzva for it to be considered not "cheap" and for u to be happy?
He replied "it depends on how much everyonelse spends and we should spend wat the typical person spends......
I replied that everyone spends different amounts. One person may spend $5000 another person may spend $20000 etc...

Basically, my son knows nothing about how much things cost so he can't even estimate how much a typical bar mitzva costs.

I'm sure my son will become more mature as he gets older(he's not spoiled ). But, for now, I don't feel like spending my n dhs hard-earned money on a nice celebration whic means nothing to my son bec we didnt spend enough......ESPECIALLY WHEN THE FOCUS OF A BAR MITZVA IS ALL ABOUT BECOMING A BAR MITZVA LITERALLY, THAT HES NOW OBLIGATED IN THE MITZVAS.

Thoughts??

SixOfWands

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 3:39 pm

doctorima wrote:

I don't know where you live and what local norms are, but if you send DS to a school where his friends all have weekday parties, I don't think it's fair to him to expect him to settle for bringing donuts to school one day.

$3000 may sound like a lot of money to you, but honestly, it's more than reasonable and actually on the lower end for Bar Mitzvah expenses. As you said, many people routinely spend significantly more than that. if you don't have the money that's one thing, but I disagree with the attitude of wanting to deprive DS and resenting his desire to feel normal.

I agree.

You don't have to do everything that other people do. But he's still a kid, and its a lot to expect that he not mind sticking out, and not having the same type of simcha that the other boys in his class have.

You're also expecting way too much of him to think that he understands finances, or understands what other people spend or what things cost.

Talk to him about what is important to him. If everyone else has a kiddush on Shabbat, maybe that's what he wants. Even if the food is a little simpler, and even if you're cousin Frimet whom he couldn't pick up out of a lineup doesn't get invited.

amother

↑ Olive ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 3:40 pm

doctorima wrote:

Thanks for responding. U are comparingmy spending to the Jones"". Just because others may spend more than $3000, doesn't mean its "cheap" or wrong to do so. Everyone here says dont follow the Jones....so we are different from the others . For example, some own homes, we dont. But, we are not sending him to a school. With rich ppl. The ppl at the school is mixed ranges of finances, but some ppl choose to spend more of simchas simply because they can't "beat" the pressure. This is why some go into debt.
However, I'm not "deprving " my son at all by offering to make a $3000 bar mitzvah. If u think so, then u probably dont understand a cheaper lifestyle with a budget. I also don't resent him wanting to feel "normal" except that I don't see "normal" as
"I must spend like my friends on something that's not a necessity in life"

I think he should appreciate the sacrifice me n my dh are making.

I also think u misunderstood my point about the "donuts" .

amother

↑ Olive ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 3:42 pm

baby12x wrote:

Maybe try to move the focus away from money: ask him what things make a bar mitzvah look "cheap" and what doesn't.
What does he want the bar mitzvah to be like? What aspect of the party is important to him.
HE DOES NOT NEED TO KNOW HOW MUCH THINGS COST.
For example, he may care about music and not about the food so you can save on the food but not the music.
Find out what's behind the "cheap" comment. After digging, you may find there is something specific he is referring to

Thanks. This is a great idea. I don't think he even knows wat he wants because like I said he never cared wat anyone else had/did, but ill ask him if there's something specific he wants....

amother

Dodgerblue

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 3:47 pm

amother wrote:

What sacrifices are you making?

Do you want to host the party that you have in mind?

amother

↑ Olive ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 4:11 pm

amother wrote:

I don't hear any empathy for your son. It sounds like you are tight with money surely you understand the disappointment of not being able to afford things you want. Try to find one thing that he really wants that will make him feel special and make that happen. A certain band? A certain food? A certain suit hat? Something you were not planning on splurging on.

I see u understand about finances. But, pls dont confuse my not wanting to spend bec of tightness""....with lack of empathy. I deprive myself of lots of things and get my kids things. But, I dont agree that a more expensice party is a need and I think its ok for my son to see he wont get the same things in life regarding non necessities. Example, all my friends are buying a house and new sheitels and have cleaning ladies. I cant afford those.

So, yes, I can understand a child wanting the same as everyonelse but at the same time, its a good lesson at 13 to learn that not only will we many times not have the same thing. But, we also dont need the same things. And, another thing is ppl here say "why does everone need keep up with jones"? But im trying to teach my son to live within ones means. Will he understand this now? Probably not completely but its a good start.

So, I dont think my "wanting to live within my means" is an indication of lack of empathy for my son. But, I do love ur suggestion about finding one specific thing he really wants.

Chayalle ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 4:11 pm

OP, how do you know that your son never cared what anyone else did?

You say your son is a good boy. You don't bring examples of what you mean by that, so I can only guess. Do you mean he does what a boy his age is expected to do? Goes to school, interacts well with his peers, helps out at home, etc...is generally an all-around good kid that gives you nachas mostly and not too much trouble?

You lucky mother. Many would wish to be in your shoes.

And if this is the case, then it would appear that your son is normal, and most normal kids very much care about what their peers do. In fact, it is often what drives them to be good - I.e. to do what's expected of them, which is usually, what's expected of most kids in their peer group. They see what's normal and expected of them and they live up to that as best they can.

And then, it's not so crazy for him to say, I want my Bar Mitzva to be normal - not more than anyone else, but not out-there less than everyone else.

I've never had the privilege of making a Bar Mitzva - I don't have any sons. But if I did, here's what I think I would do (on my very tight me-working-DH-Kollel budget). I would find out what the standard package deal is in my community, in a normal, not-particularly-expensive hall (think - local shul or something like that), and I would go with the standard meal/setup. (OK, knowing myself, I'd probably also do a little side baking, since that's something I do well and enjoy, to make it extra nice, but nothing much more.)

I expect my kid to do the norm...and I would do the same for my kid.

thunderstorm ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 4:31 pm

amother wrote:

Thanks. I did explain to him.

But, I have a question for u. Are u saying that u think I SHOULD SPEND $3000 AND MAKE THE BAR MITZVA EVEN THOUGH IT MEANS NOTHING TO HIM??? I was willing to spend $3000 but he says its nothing to him, so u think I shld still make it??

It is very typical of a 13 yr old to talk this way. My DS was recently Bar Mitzvah. He is going to Israel with my DH in lieu of a caterer Bar Mitzvah bash in a hall with photographer and musician.
However I still celebrated his Bar Mitzvah in my home with a beautiful Seuda for immediate family only. I wanted him to invite his class as well but he wasn't interested . Whenever I'd ask him what he wants on the menu , he'd say " I don't care, I don't need anything you don't have to make me anything . I just want to go to Israel." But I understood that he was talking like a teenager. I actually wanted to show him how much I value this simcha and that I wanted to celebrate that I went all out with the food , cooking and baking up a storm. I've done this for all my boys so far. It was only the day of that he actually got excited. I kept telling my DH that if he's not interested why should I bother? But my siblings and DH said that it's important regardless . That I myself needed to show excitement regardless of what my DS was saying. He ended up being very excited and happy with the outcome.
I also made a small Kiddush in shul. I made the Kugel and Cholent and cakes and rugalech. All we bought was herring and stuff for Lechaim. It was only for the men , the Shabbos of his aliya.
Then also, as tradition in his school we bought danishes and cake for the classmates and Rebbes to bring to school on his bo bayom. My DH has airline and hotel mileage from credit cards and was able to get the trip to Israel for the two of them including lodging for less than $1500. I spent in total around $3,000 between all of this. But this does not include his tefillin and new wardrobe of suits, shirts and hats etc.
This was for a boy that showed no interest. Believe me he WAS interested. He was afraid that I was going to do it on too low of a scale. (His best friend had his BM at a hotel with ice sculptures and fountains ) But in the end he was very happy with the way we did things. It's important to show him that you care about the details and that living within our means is important. But we can still make it lovely and nice.

amother

↑ Olive ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 4:35 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Thanks for responding. You spoke about a typical bar mitzva but u didnt quote any prices. The money has to come from somewhere, I still have other expenses bh like braces etc...

However, I have a question on your last statement "I expect my kid to do the norm and I would do the same for my kid".
So are u saying if the norm is to make a 10 to 15 k bar mitzva, then u believe that I must do that even if I am not able to afford it.???(I know kollel ppl making expensive simchas and own houses etc...good for them but money has to come from somewhere)

This is a discussion about "keeping up with jones". How can I change the "norm" to be wat my reality is which is max $3000(by the way, this is not including his suit and hat and tefillin)???

Do u believe im supposed to do the "norm" which is above my means which means im giving in to peer pressure, regardless of my finances???

I live with mixed group of poorer and middle class families but u cant tell who is really rich/poor based on simchas unfortunately.

Am I a bad mom for not spending more on my sons bar mitzva??? I dont think so. I think im being rational and realistic with our budgget and im not giving into the pressure of "keeping up with jones". Yes, my kids have a right to "fit in", but the problem is that if everyone is raising the bar by following the norm, then kids from poorer families will always feel different unless their parents go into debt to "fit in". How far does this go? And, wat is this teaching our children for the future?? Will they go into debt also thinking that they are "bad" if they dont provide the norm???

The problem is that a $3000 seuda with music and nice food in a nice place with a new suit is A LOT IN MY EYES AND IS A VERY NICE SIMCHA IN MY OPINION. its not a necessity to have a party.

Im curious to hear about ur opinionabout this.

ora_43 ↓

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 4:37 pm

Are you sure it means nothing to him? That sounds like the kind of thing pre-teens say and don't really mean.

If he doesn't understand money (and of course he doesn't, he's 12), maybe the whole problem is that what's he's imagining a $3,000 bar mitzva looks like and what it actually looks like aren't the same thing. Maybe you asked if he'd be OK with a cheap bar mitzvah, and he assumed something embarrassingly cheap, way worse than every other kid's bar mitzvah.

When it sounds like actually it's about average for his class? Or at least not very obviously different from the average.

I'd break it down for him. "We would do a party with all of your friends at (location), with (food) and (entertainment). Something like what (other kid in his class) did. I would really like to do this for you, and I think you'll have fun. What do you say?"

If what he says is "no, that's stupid, I don't care," give him a week or so to think about it, because he's 12. If he's serious, ask him to come up with alternative ideas.

amother

Lawngreen

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 4:42 pm

I don't understand why you're discussing money with him. Why does he need to know how much you're spending at all? Why is it of any interest to him what you or other people are spending?
I don't know - maybe I'm old fashioned or something. We didn't grow up talking about money. We didn't know how much our parents made, what our house or car cost, how much parties cost, etc. My parents didn't think it was appropriate to discuss these things with children. And I tend to agree. Why should kids worry about finances?
All the classmates get a seudah, so you make him one too, on your budget. He doesn't need to know the budget. You make the best you can with what you have decided you can afford. That's it. Done.

P.S. Typical kids never appreciate (at least not until they grow up and have kids of their own) much of what we sacrifice for them.... and we do it daily! That's normal kid behavior.

↑ ora_43

Thu, Mar 07 2019, 4:47 pm

I honestly cannot even imagine what part of a $15,000 party would be more appealing to a bunch of 13-year-old boys than a $3,000 party. OK, maybe if the parents hired professional ninjas as entertainment. But I'm guessing they just spent it on nicer food or inviting more relatives.

How many 13-year-olds can look at a $6,000 hall and a $1,500 hall and tell you the difference?? Isn't preferred party food at that age usually pizza and candy?

I get that there are probably cultural norms here that I'm not aware of, but I really truly believe that it's possible to make a party kids that age will love for a reasonable price. Don't give up.