How I Wish My Doctor Would Have Presented Vaccination

amother

cornflower ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 6:15 am

Hi Mrs. Ploni!

Your son is now approaching the age where we generally start giving vaccinations.

As you know, vaccination involves injecting a small amount of the disease, usually inactivated, along with some adjuvants - which are chemicals which stimulate the body’s immune response, and a minuscule amount of preservatives to keep the injection stable.

To be honest, medical science does not yet fully understand how this process works, but vaccinating drastically reduces chances of children getting a wide range of diseases.

Vaccinations are each introduced to fight a specific disease that we know contains serious risks. They can be fast-tracked into production, because unless the side effects are very common and very serious, they are usually a smaller risk than the disease itself. Later, the formulas are often fine-tuned to make them safer. For example, the original polio vaccine contained the live virus, which actually gave some children polio. The newer vaccines do not contain any live poliovirus, and are safer, even though they are a drop less effective.

You should be aware that more research efforts go into coming up with new vaccines against more diseases than into researching how to make current vaccines safer.

We can do our part in pushing for safer vaccines by reporting any side effects to VAERS, which is a database of vaccine reactions. Either we can do this at the office, or you can report yourself online.

We can also follow extra precautions to minimize side effects, in the timing and frequency we actually administer the vaccinations.

It is important to note that each vaccine comes with its own risk/benefit ratio in proportion to the disease it presents. Some vaccines need a series of shots to get sufficient immunity rates, some need boosters after a few years because the immunity can wear off, others are not successful for 25% or more of people who get the shots.

Overall, vaccines are considered safe, but there is no medication in the world that has no side effects, and vaccines are not an exception. For most people the effects are unnoticeable or very minor, but occasionally a person will have a severe reaction which in rare cases can lead to long-term health issues.

In respect to the practice of responsible medicine, I prefer to take a more cautious attitude to vaccination. This involves spacing out vaccinations more, and evaluating more regularly for side effects that would indicate that a child is not handling the vaccines well.

However, this approach can only work when a parent is on board. It requires a bigger time investment from parents, including more frequent visits to the doctor. These would not be full appointments, as any nurse in the practice could administer the vaccines once they are ordered. Still, it is a commitment on your part.

Since vaccinations are, as we mentioned, overall safe, if you can’t commit to more frequent trips to the doctor to space out the shots, the most logical decision would be to just go with the CDC recommended vaccine schedule.

If you ARE willing and able to make the commitment, we will follow a modified schedule, spacing out vaccines about 2 months apart each, preferring separate over combined vaccines, and evaluating each vaccine individually.

If not, we will still do our best to vaccinate responsibly, and make decisions out of abundance of caution. We will do this by preferring single-dose vials which contain fewer preservatives, and reporting all side effects to VAERS, ensuring that researchers know of any problems with the existing formulas.

Of course, as always, you are the parent and we will respect your decisions, even if we disagree. I hope, however, that we can discuss your concerns and come to conclusions that we both feel good about.

What do you think?

—

In respect to the measles vaccine: Unfortunately, in the USA today there is no option to separate the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines. Although each of them have their own sets of risks and benefits, let’s focus on the measles portion of the vaccine, since for most this is the make-it-or-break-it of this decision.

Of course all sicknesses are miserable, but that is not a good enough reason to take a health risk.

Measles was once considered a “standard” childhood disease, similar to chicken pox. Still, the mortality rates are significantly higher than with chicken pox, about 2 out of 10,000 in otherwise healthy children. This is a low rate, but still not negligible. More importantly, measles is extremely contagious, and has a long incubation period where you don’t know that you are sick, but can still pass on the virus to others.

Although there are some bigger safety concerns with the MMR over some other vaccines, this vaccine is extremely effective, providing full and lasting immunity to over 95% of people getting the shot.

I therefore recommend the measles vaccine to anyone without a history of negative vaccine reactions.

If you would not get the vaccine, you should be aware of the alternative methods of treatment, which may reduce the chances of significant complications, and be prepared to self-quarantine for up to 2 weeks in the case of an outbreak to prevent it from spreading.

If you did suspect that you were exposed, I would recommend the measles immunoglobulin, which does not necessarily provide lifetime protection, but would prevent you from getting the measles immediately.

—

About the varicella vaccine:

You probably remember chicken pox, also known as varicella, from when you were a child. Of course, it is not a pleasant thing to have. You probably do not remember people dying from it, although it did happen. Of course, chicken pox, as any other disease, can be very serious for someone who is immunocompromised, like L”A a cancer patient.

The varicella vaccine is not always so effective, and immunity tends to wear off. This raises some concerns, as chicken pox is far more serious as an adult. Getting the actual disease confers lifetime immunity.

Because of this, some elect to postpone the vaccine until age 10 or 11, and if the child has not yet had natural chicken pox, vaccinate then.

If you do choose to get the shot, be sure to stay away from immunocompromised people for the first few days, because some get chicken pox or shingles FROM the vaccine, and you can shed the virus for several days.

—

In regards to DTaP:

This is another vaccine that is not available separately. Since the pertussis component is the most significant of that shot, let’s focus on that disease.

Pertussis, also known as whooping cough, is a disease that is a big deal for most people who get it. Whooping cough causes coughing fits, often ending with a characteristic “whoop” as the person fights to catch their breath. The cough can last for weeks or months, and can cause a whoop-like cough for every minor cold for up to a year. It is far more dangerous in infants, causing pneumonia in a significant number of cases.

Alternative treatments do exist, but are not simple. One noted pediatrician requires 24-hour rocking of an infant with pertussis, to prevent mucus from settling in the lungs and causing pneumonia, along with heavy doses of vitamin C, which can be hard to give to infants and children.

---

Etc.

CONTEXT: I was originally a status-quo vaxxer, became anti-vax, and am now a conservative vaxer.

Sebastian ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 6:29 am

I m on my phone so I can't take apart your post but some things you said are not accurate

The live polo vaccine was needed bc it s stronger and there was still polio around. Once polio was basically eradicated it was safe to switch to the weaker non live vaccine. Just one example

amother

Plum ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 7:24 am

U obviously did your research & have educated yourself
I myself have a SN child on the spectrum & he has had the full vaccination regimen. I don’t blame vaccines on his autism but on the other hand I can’t dismiss others who have seen major setbacks happen to their child immediately after receiving their vaccine.

Personally, I think we need to educate ourselves and ask questions.

My daughter who lives in Lakewood Just took her 11 month old baby to some clinic for an early MMR shot b/c of the recent outbreak of measles in Lakewood. She didn’t even know why there was an outbreak. She was happy she was able to take her baby to one of the clinics there & get the shot early. She in general never asks questions regarding medical things. She is a very trusting and accepting type of person. It’s good in some ways but obviously not in everything.
There are no easy answers.

But OP I like your whole shpiel. I wonder though if the average ‘joe’ would even be bothered reading the whole thing if it was presented to them. I feel that unless we are personally affected by the vaccines ie SN child or compromised immune system, the women having kids every 2 years just want to get their well checkups over with and trust the doctors and pharmacudical companies bc they should be trusted 😳

amother

Cobalt

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 7:38 am

Well it just makes me angry why I have to immunize my little baby earlier because of a bunch of stupid people that don't immunize altogether. And if my dr gave such a long speech before immunizing, I would be seriously annoyed.

pesek zman

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:21 am

What doctor do you know who has the time to sayband explain and do a whole q&a about this?

SuperWify ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:24 am

OP well said and researched. I wish there were more people like you.

The only type I hear screaming here and irl- are the pro and anti vaxers camps- one side claiming that vaccines are the safest and most wonderful invention of all time, why not take all (and I mean ALL flu, chicken pox and vaccines that are unproven ect) at one shot?

And on the other side we have them screaming- vaccines are so dangerous taking them will poison you forever. Doctors are truly evil who are in a conspiracy with the pharmaceutical companies to get rich.

Is there really no voice in reason???

I talk to my friends and they all seem it of control hysterical about the measles outbreak. They rushed to get their children under a year a MMR and those older a second dose. They check there children six times a day to make sure they don’t have any rash. They simply cannot understand why I space out my vaccines. Why I make myself crazy going to the doctor every day to get another shot. Think it’s really irresponsible of me. Think I’m crazy for not giving the flu shot. Think I’m crazy for not giving the MMR until the recommended 15-18 months.

I’ve done my research. My doctor has too. Vaccines are a bracha that we can’t live without, but- like any other medication- it’s stupid to say that there are no side effects or risks in taking them whatsoever.

↑ SuperWify ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:26 am

amother wrote:

I totally understand your first part.

But why would you be annoyed if your doctor takes a minute to educate you?

Chayalle ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:26 am

I'm sure the OP would not mind paying the doctor extra per hour for his/her time, while they have the whole above conversation. I'm sure she would be okay with scheduling a long visit slot, with extra expenses incurred, for the above. All doctors should have this possibility for those who want it and are willing to pay for it.

amother

Bisque ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:37 am

We learned a lot about vaccines in school. When I had a child I was comfortable with what I knew and as with anything I continued doing research and asking questions.

amother

Burlywood ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:41 am

Chayalle wrote:

Informed consent is a requirement before providing any medical service, unless it's emergency care in certain circumstances.
Expense is not an excuse.

↑ SuperWify

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:45 am

amother wrote:

We learned a lot about vaccines in school. When I had a child I was comfortable with what I knew and as with anything I continued doing research and asking questions.

Interesting! The only thing we were taught about in high school regarding the topic was the stupidity of anti-vaxxers and how safe and effective vaccines are. And how we should give vaccines as easily as possible- even two weeks old.

↑ Chayalle

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:46 am

amother wrote:

Informed consent is a requirement before providing any medical service, unless it's emergency care in certain circumstances.
Expense is not an excuse.

There are many ways for informed consent.

Expense is not an excuse, but who should absorb that expense?

The way the OP presents her requirements, would likely involve quite a long visit with a prolonged conversation with the doctor. To schedule that for every child being vaccinated (or at least one from every family) would require a much longer visit, as surely OP wouldn't want to be in the waiting room if that were taking place, unscheduled, with another patient.

I don't know if insurance would pay for such a longer time slot, and the doctor surely is entitled to compensation for time.

Perhaps a letter to patients would work.

amother

↑ Burlywood

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:57 am

Chayalle wrote:

Other ideas include having someone on staff (intern or someone low paid) whose job is to present a workshop to groups of new parents.

There are always ways

Last edited by amother on Sun, Nov 11 2018, 8:23 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Royalblue

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 9:20 am

OP - that's nice but what do you say about the fact that not all doctors, and indeed most doctors, don't recommend this slower vaccination process?

Vaccinating according to the CDC recommended schedule is not a matter of laziness and irresponsibility as you are implying.

My childs doc did introduce the idea that there are side effects but assured me that he believes that the risk is worse if the child becomes ill. I asked a few questions and accepted his highly educated advice. Since then I have read many articles on the topic and still think that was good advice.

amother

Brunette ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 9:29 am

Chayalle wrote:

You are right about cost. I have private insurance and what my dr makes for a visit is a joke. I really almost feel bad. I can just imagine what Medicaid pays. It’s less then they pay my kid’s speech therapist.
And he has a huge staff and malpractice insurance and lots of expenses. I have a family member almost a pediatrician and he said if he were to practice in nj and take Medicaid it wouldn’t cover student loans.
We all complain about medical costs but as long as coverage goes down time will get less and we and our children lose out.
No one in medical school is interning in a dr office and no one would be happy to having an 18 yr old secretary come in and tell them this. We have to be realistic. But we lose out.

gold21

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 9:35 am

Love it, OP!

chani8

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 9:36 am

Reaching the age of vaccinations??? They give one before the child leaves the hospital!

↑ Sebastian ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 9:39 am

Chani8 in the us you can turn it down

amother

↑ Brunette ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 9:42 am

Sebastian wrote:

Chani8 in the us you can turn it down

You can. Hep b you sign consent and is not mandatory in the hospital in the us.
Vit-k I was too groggy but I think they asked me permission first. Don’t remember if I signed anything.

PinkFridge ↓

Sun, Nov 11 2018, 9:58 am

amother wrote:

Hi Mrs. Ploni!

I therefore recommend the measles vaccine to anyone without a history of negative vaccine reactions.

If you would not get the vaccine, you should be aware of the alternative methods of treatment, which may reduce the chances of significant complications, and be prepared to self-quarantine for up to 2 weeks in the case of an outbreak to prevent it from spreading.

If you did suspect that you were exposed, I would recommend the measles immunoglobulin, which does not necessarily provide lifetime protection, but would prevent you from getting the measles immediately.

Can you elaborate the bolded? Thanks.