feeling torn about going to shul

Twizzlers

Sat, Sep 08 2007, 7:03 pm

amother wrote:

well I have 3 kids bah, under the age of 2 1/2 and I plan on taking them to shul. why should they miss out on shofar. true kids are kids. I will keep then in as long as I can...bh for my mom and sisters who can help me and we have a playroom in shul so I can take them in there also.

aha! so YOU are the one who brings their noisy little kids to shul so they shouldnt miss out on shofar. YOU are the one that makes other women go scrambling around to find another shofar blowing cuz they missed some while your kids were "being kids".

and you're proud of that???
Rolling Eyes

↑ amother

Sat, Sep 08 2007, 7:09 pm

I can't understand bringing small children to hear shofar.It is not supposed to be "cute". It's very serious time that should invoke emotion & introspection in each of us.Listening to moms shush their kids isn't inspirational. Our shul has a shofar blowing right after davening & even so mothers bring their kids into the minyan. It takes a lot for women to block out the noise from kids. Yes I do have kids & never brought them in to distrurb other people.

Crayon210 ↓

Sun, Sep 09 2007, 8:21 am

amother wrote:

(mitzva d'oraisa that you are mechuyav in!!)

This is not true!
Women are NOT chayav to hear shofar blowing!

yedidya's mom

Sun, Sep 09 2007, 8:24 am

OP here again.

I definitely dont think iys right to bring my kids to shofar or into shul at all at this age (ages 2 and a bit and 1)
I found someone to watch my kids and will iyh be going both days for shofar and some of mussaf. hope this is the right decision

Isramom8

Mon, Sep 10 2007, 11:51 pm

Hamodia wrote about a mother who discovered after Rosh Hashana that the non jewish babysitter showed the kids DVDs for much of the time the mother was in shul. It has to be someone you know and trust, and even then, give clear instructions as to how they are to occupy their time. And nosh bags.

I believe that if there is no good arangement for kids, the mother should stay home. On the other hand, I'd feel frustrated doing that on Rosh Hashana. Often on Yom Kippur I've stayed home. When all our kids were young, my dh graciously davened vasikin and arrived home in time for me to attend shofar and mussaf at a regular minyan. When our big girls got older, they babysat for just a little bit of time so that I could go to shul for a while. Some years I woke up at 6 a.m. in order to go to shul for a little while before our older daughters were ready to go. Now I "borrow" a family member's health care aide to watch my youngest kids during shofar and mussaf. I try to have them in a public playground where there are other frum kids hanging out.

A woman (or actually, anyone) only has to hear 30 kolos (sounds) of shofar, not all 100 - that is a custom if one has the luxury.

↑ BeershevaBubby

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 12:01 am

This was written by someone else on another forum:

Quote:

Motherhood and the Yomim Noraim

I went to a shiur on Shabbos geared towards mothers of young children. The speaker mentioned that most of the time, classes about R"H and Y"K are geared towards men or women who will be in shul. The focus is the davening and what the kavanos should be there. But what about those of us B"H home with our kids, who may have limited (or no) time to daven? How do we relate to R"H and to the crowning of Hashem as the King?

She spoke about one year that it really hit home for her. She had ka'h 4 kids under the age of 6. The youngest was 3 weeks old, her 2yo had an ear infection and was having an allergic reaction to the antibiotic (although she hadn't realized yet what that rash was from). She spent the entire morning caring for her kids, and suddenly realized that her husband was about to come home in 10 minutes for kiddush between Shacharis and Mussaf (as was that community's custom), and she was still in her nightgown and hadn't davened brachos yet, and was completely taken aback by her lack of davening on R"H.

So here's what she answered. She said that nowadays we cannot really relate to what kingship/monarchy means. Currently, even countries that still have a monarchy, in most cases the monarch is not sovereign over the people. There are other political powers that come into play and the monarch cannot demand subservience of his/her subjects. So she gave the moshol of the coronation of Czar Nicholas and Czarina Alexandra of Russia. She described the pomp and grandeur of the coronation, and how most people couldn't afford to make the trip so one person would be sent by the entire village as their emissary to report back to the town what everything looked like.

Then, let's suppose a week before the coronation, one of the guards mentioned to then-Prince Nicholas that he'd ordered his new garments to be worn at the coronation. And Nicholas says "but you won't be there." The guard thinks he's kidding, and tries to brush it off. But Nicholas persists "You are the guard of my treasury. It is your task to guard my wealth; if you don't do it, who will? You won't be at the coronation. You will be at work, doing your job. I need you to do it; I don't trust anyone else with this task - it's all you."

Of course, we can see the nimshal. At the coronation of the King of Kings, our job is not to be "lining the streets, hoping to get a glimpse of the King." Our job is to be caring for His treasures - the children. We may not have a chance to say all of the tefillos, but caring for our children is our tefillah. It is our avodah of the day. That isn't to say we shouldn't try to daven if we are able, but if we are unable, we should realize that our parenting duties are what Hashem wants from us this year.

And to take things a step further, Chazal tell us that Hashem will treat us the way we treat others. The speaker said that she tries to be the best mother she can possibly be on R"H and Y"K. She does not tell her kids "no" on those days if she can at all avoid it. She lets them do things (that are not obviously dangerous) that she wouldn't usually allow. That isn't to say we should let our children run rampant, but within reason if it really isn't hurting anything, try to be lenient with our children. Treat them with the midas harachamim instead of the midas hadin.
And may we all be blessed with mercy from the King Above.

curly

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 7:54 pm

this is the first year that I have a baby on Rh and yk. I will probably go to a woman's shofar blowing or just ask my husband if he can blow shofar for me. I will probably try to go to shul for like twerty minutes but I'll see how my baby is in the morning.

mimivan ↓

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 8:24 pm

Kmelion: Thanks for sharing that--it really was on target!

I think every man should learn how to blow shofar correctly before he gets married, to practice in Elul and to have a shofar at home. Same with megillah (I know several families that pitched in to buy one megillah for all of them so the woman could hear the megillah without having to schlepp the kids to shul and to be on tenterhooks the entire reading fearing the kids would make a noise!) Wink

Helani

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 8:42 pm

Thanks Kmelion... with 3 kids four and under I am definitely not getting much davening done this year. Although, I have to say trying to be a perfect parent for those couple of days sounds like more of a challenge than davening with kavanah would be.

hadasa ↓

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 8:50 pm

Kmelion - that's beautiful, thanks for sharing.

Dini

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 9:22 pm

thank kmelion and not say no to my kids...I could try but that will be very hard. I just asked dh about shofar if woman have to hear it and he said we don't and that it's assur for a man to say the brachah for a woman because we are not mechuyav.

Beauty and the Beast

Tue, Sep 11 2007, 10:01 pm

kmelion, thanks for sharing that, and thanks to the person who posted it.
I was feeling so down and torn about what to do, but now I have a clear answer. Do what you have to do. take care of ur kids.

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Wed, Sep 12 2007, 7:57 am

Babies notwithstanding, if you can read the siddur, you should be davening - and in shul.

Buying a seat is a donation to the shul and tzedekah.

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 3:36 pm

What's the source that women have to hear 30 kolos? Or any kolos?

↑ mimivan ↓

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 3:54 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

Babies notwithstanding, if you can read the siddur, you should be davening - and in shul.

Buying a seat is a donation to the shul and tzedekah.

CM, you're not saying that you want to hear people's screaming toddlers all morning/afternoon RH and YK...
I don't think staying home is laziness, but mesirus nefesh, in some cases...
I used to stay home until my oldest turned 4 and I think it is good to take him for chinuch.
I'm still really torn though...

↑ mimivan

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 10:09 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

amother wrote:

(mitzva d'oraisa that you are mechuyav in!!)

This is not true!
Women are NOT chayav to hear shofar blowing!

I don't know if you are the same Crayon who is Chabad.

If so, I'll mention the Alter Rebbe said the women should hear shofar.

↑ hadasa ↓

Sun, Sep 16 2007, 11:17 pm

If I'm not mistaken, the Shulchan Aruch says that hearing Shofar is a Mitzvah that women of all generations were Mekabel on themselves.

shalhevet ↓

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 12:26 am

hadasa wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, the Shulchan Aruch says that hearing Shofar is a Mitzvah that women of all generations were Mekabel on themselves.

Ashkenazi women definitely were mekabel on themselves. You can hear the first 30 kolos, or go later and hear the 30 during mussaf (make your own brocho). It's not usually a problem to make sure your kids are quiet for 5 minutes (a bag of nosh helps wonders here) or to go to a different minyan before/after your husband, or to split up with a friend and one hears the first kolos while the other looks after the kids and then you switch.

↑ shalhevet

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 12:40 am

chocolate moose wrote:

Babies notwithstanding, if you can read the siddur, you should be davening - and in shul.

Do you have a source for this 'psak'? Where is it written that women (particularly mothers of babies) have to go to shul? And what does Hashem want us to do with the little children He entrusted us with? Let them cry and disturb the men who have a chiyuv (obligation) to daven with a minyan? And the women who don't have little kids right now? Let them run around without worrying about their physical and spiritual well-being? Leave them with a Jewish babysitter (and then how is she supposed to be in shul)? Leave our precious Jewish neshomos with a non-Jewish babysitter?

Quote:

Buying a seat is a donation to the shul and tzedekah.

What is that to do with anything? Buying a seat is an only fair way of paying your part in the expenses (electricity, cleaning etc) the shul incurs so that you can daven there. So people who should be davenning in shul should buy a seat, and those who shouldn't be davenning in shul are not using their facilities and don't need to buy a seat (I doubt anyone thinks a woman who just comes to shul to hear the shofar needs to contribute, but if anyone is unsure maybe they should ask a rav if they should make some donation for using their services).

↑ hadasa

Mon, Sep 17 2007, 1:28 am

shalhevet wrote:

hadasa wrote:

If I'm not mistaken, the Shulchan Aruch says that hearing Shofar is a Mitzvah that women of all generations were Mekabel on themselves.

Or, if your husband has a Shofar, he can blow for you when he gets home (BTDT!)