Ask Away About Other Communities- Not Chassidim

Notsobusy

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 7:40 pm

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

I went to BY and am probably the only girl that married someone with a shtreimel. My classmates all married learning guys and for the most part their husbands are learning or have a shteller. Many of these women were extremely with it, full of energy , always smiling etc. Unfortunately , in more than half of my class these women have a baby almost every year and look like shmattas. They honestly look miserable and can barely force a smile. Even when they talk, it comes out in this slow weird way. The kids are all over the place , on top of the shopping cart, underneath and hanging from all sides. Many of them are parents in my kids classes now. It almost looks like life itself has been sucked out of them and they are just not coping. Is this what they signed up for? Is this a result of working too hard? Are they not allowed to take BC? Are they proud of this chaos that they deal with daily? I'm trying to understand the path they have chosen. I honestly believe that they are not happy . They would smile and be themselves otherwise. Something is wrong and it really concerns me. I went to the same school and could've made the same choices as them. I knew I can't live a kolell life so my DH only learned until my first was born. I just worry that these innocent women truly believe that torturing themselves is their avodas HaShem and it bugs me.

I know we don't live in the same city, but I can't imagine the kollel wives in Monsey are that different from the kollel wives in Lakewood. There are definitely some overwhelmed women here, but your descriptions sound way off. I see very few women like the ones you describe. The only part that is sometimes right is the kids hanging from the shopping cart, but even those mothers don't usually look like shmattas.

↑ thunderstorm ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 7:51 pm

Notsobusy wrote:

I don't know if there is a separate group , but I do know that a lot of them lived in Lakewood and moved here because Lakewood wasn't "heilig enough". I don't want to get into details but, I have absolutely no issues with the kolell lifestyle. I was just exposed to this group and these people were my friends. They changed drastically and I'm amazed at how many did. We are not talking about a few. This is literally half of my class of 36 girls. And they are not happy. They may try to put on a show that they are, but it all shows right through. It looks like it is a peer pressure thing and a bit of brainwashing too . I'm happy to hear that this is not the norm in other places.

Mommyg8 ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 7:53 pm

I'm going to respond to BDM's post about the kollel wives: The school I went to is not relevant to this discussion, as it does not fit into this category. BUT my family is mostly kollel/klei kodesh, and I've picked up quite a few friends along the way, and I have not seen what BDM is seeing. Yes, they definitely work harder, and they live much simpler, and they do b'h, for the most part have large families. They may not have time to schmooze, and they may look overwhelmed at times, but I know many of them very well, and I have never heard one complaint, NOT ONE, among all the women that I know, about the life they have chosen.

I DO see women who look unhappy, who doesn't? But I'm not sure I can fit them into one kind of category. Some are kollel wives, some are working wives with working husbands, some are just plain regular people, some are single women - I just don't know enough people's personal lives to know what it is that makes these women unhappy. I do see that some women have hard lives - I just don't know what the reason is. But I don't see these women concentrated in the kollel population at all.

I also see some families with two working parents who look overwhelmed/unhappy as well.

I'm surprised at BDM's post, because I would have assumed that a man of that age - married to your classmate - would have long gone to work already. I don't know too many families with older kids where the husband is still in kollel... maybe I'm moving in the wrong circles, but in all the families I know, there comes a point where the husband either finds a job in klei kodesh, or finds a diffferent kind of job. Very few are able to make it past the two/three kids in school stage, at least that's what I am seeing.

icebreaker

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 7:59 pm

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

I may be the only one with questions. This one is for families that have TV and allow the kids tv time. In today's day and age TV is full of filth . Lots of talk about zex and cursing. How do you keep the divide and how do your kids stay on the path of Yiddishkeit and frumkeit with all the garbage that they are exposed to? I see from my own family members that the kids with television are busy with boyfriends and girlfriends at age four and up. That is so young for kids to have their heads full of that stuff. Isn't harder to have gedarim once they are exposed? I am not naive . I'm want to hear how you keep them motivated in pursuing ruchnius when they are exposed to a very exciting world that non tv kids are not exposed to.

My kids watch tv but nothing as exciting as what you describe lol. My eldest does watch the Investigation Discovery Channel because she wants to go into forensics so whenever it’s her turn for the tv, I can expect shes watching something on ID. My two youngest still watch cartoons and as a family, we do like watching science shows (our current favorite is Blue Planet on BBC America). We’re not a Kardashian, reality-tv watching family. We only have 1 tv and I’m aware of what my kids watch. That being said, my eldest daughter is in the process of figuring out what she wants to do in life (including her religious observance). But I don’t think that has anything to do with tv watching as much as me and my ex being completely accepting of any different paths our children decide to make in life as long as it’s not illegal and they’re doing it for themselves and not anyone else. If they decide to move more left of where we are, cool. More right, cool.

↑ thunderstorm ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:02 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I'm breathing a sigh of relief. I was thinking that thousands of families were living like this. The fathers are still in kolell and they have over 10 children, most of them. I've been inside the houses of a few. Complete and utter chaos. I happen to have lived in a specific kolell neighborhood and I was the odd one out, so I was surrounded by this environment for a number of years.
I was looked at as a rachmanus that "I don't have a husband" because he worked and wasn't home during bein hazmanim etc. ... I thought if I'd move to Lakewood I'd be viewed the same way. But from these few posts I'm happy to hear that I've just lived amongst a unique crowd.

↑ gold21

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:15 pm

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

Vimpel- when a baby boy is born he lays on a fabric the mother and family painstakingly decorate. Some embroider, do quilting, painting all sorts of different methods of decorating are used. On each milestone it gets added to his garment. Such as Bar Mitzvah, to the Tallis etc. I need a yekke to describe it. It's a beautiful concept and it gets decorated more and more as the milestones change.
I was told it's called "grunken" it's German and is grainlike similar to barley. I don't think it's kasha though.

Gruenkern is a grain grown in/near Germany. Try some gruenkern soup someday, it's delicious.

saw50st8 ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:21 pm

Boca00 wrote:

Any yekkish imas here? Does everything REALLY start on time?

I'm half Yekke. The following is a true story:

My mother woke us up at 5, left the house at 6, picked up my grandparents at 7 and drove to Brooklyn for my cousin's bar mitzvah, scheduled to start at 8 am. At 7:59 am, we were at the corner waiting for the light to turn when my grandfather (completely seriously) said "I guess we are going to be late."

On time is really 5 minutes early.

↑ crust ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:21 pm

Boca00 wrote:

Now I just have to ask...

Is there such a thing as a shy Lubavitcher? I have never met one who wasn't super-outgoing. How would it work with shlichus and approaching strangers if you are shy?

(I decided I could ask this about Lubavitch as I don't think all the "Chassidish threads" were geared to them, and this isn't controversial.)

Yes. I also see the extroverted nature. But what I see even more is this snake skin type of nature. They really have more headspace.
I sometimes wish for a sliver of thier strength and no-nonsense approach to life.

I thought about this alot. I came to my own decision, which might not be true but anyway.

I think that just like there are common streaks in the Hungarian population, so too are there certain Russian streaks in the people that come from those areas. Being that many in Chabad originate from that region, this streak is found between them, more.

↑ crust ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:22 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

You made me lol. How sweet!

simba ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:23 pm

Boca00 wrote:

I would let you have lunch with my dh but he is too shy! There you have your answer Smile

Don't worry, he still went across Greece for a summer searching for Jews yet given a choice he would rather me answer the phone then him!
The Shlichus thing is ingrained from a.very young age. We likely have a similar shyness ratio to the rest of the human population!

↑ Boca00 ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:29 pm

simba wrote:

I would let you have lunch with my dh but he is too shy! There you have your answer Smile

Wow, so that's really impressive that he went anyway. I guess Lubavitch boys are pushed more out of their comfort zone, which I think is great.

Interesting theory, Crust. I wonder...

↑ Boca00 ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:31 pm

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

Now a question for the sefardim. Do you spend hours and hours making all those intricate dishes, like stuffed grape leaves, kibbe, and all the traditional foods , from scratch . Or are you really fooling us and taking it from the freezer section at your local supermarket ?

Haha not me, but I only married sfardi. Some of my husband's relatives do make this stuff from scratch... So much work!

Some is made only for yom tov and special occasions by the ones I know, but probably some sfardim make them on a more regular basis.

Last edited by Boca00 on Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:32 pm

crust wrote:

Yes, but not all Lubavitcher's are Lubavitch from birth. I would guess that a lot joined Chabad more recently (I would think a large percentage, actually), so they're not all from the same part of Russia Smile

. I have a friend who started off in a different Chassidus, and somehow they ended up in Lubavitch. I'm sure she's not the only one...

↑ simba ↓

Mon, Mar 05 2018, 8:33 pm

crust wrote:

Chabad originates from Russia yet today their are only a small percentage of the larger chabad community that come from those original families. We have welcomed thousands of BT families who have varied origins.
I would more likely attribute this strength to our previous Rebbe who really showed great strength in face of strong adversity, We saw this so many times, it was his MO and he demanded the same from his chassidim.