"If it saves one life"

↑ imasoftov ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 3:22 am

Enough! National School Walkout on March 14

In case you can't or won't read this at Facebook, here's the event description

Women’s March Youth EMPOWER is calling for students, teachers, school administrators, parents and allies to take part in a #NationalSchoolWalkout for 17 minutes at 10am across every time zone on March 14, 2018 to protest Congress’ inaction to do more than tweet thoughts and prayers in response to the gun violence plaguing our schools and neighborhoods. We need action. Students and allies are organizing the national school walkout to demand Congress pass legislation to keep us safe from gun violence at our schools, on our streets and in our homes and places of worship.

Students and staff have the right to teach and learn in an environment free from the worry of being gunned down in their classrooms or on their way home from school.

Parents have the right to send their kids to school in the mornings and see them home alive at the end of the day.

We are not safe at school. We are not safe in our cities and towns. Congress must take meaningful action to keep us safe and pass federal gun reform legislation that address the public health crisis of gun violence. We want Congress to pay attention and take note: many of us will vote this November and many others will join in 2020.

Join us in saying #ENOUGH!

Add your event to the map or find one near you here: https://www.actionnetwork.org/.....lkout

↑ 33055 ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 5:04 am

SixOfWands wrote:

You wish that your kids were in schools like the ones in Parkland.

According to a 2008 estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $277,072, and the estimated median house value was $973,176. About 2.0% of families and .4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 3.2% of those under age 18 and none of those age 65 or over. The school was 40% Jewish. 97% graduation rate. Half take AP classes. Was one of the safest places in the US.

If it could happen there, it could happen anywhere.

I wanted to think this through before I responded. I don't wish my kids went to a public school like this. While it sounds lovely for a public school, it is a public school with all the attendant sleeze and drugs. I went to a public school in a great school district. I received a fabulous education, but unfortunately I learned too many social things that I was shieded from at home. Drugs and zex were rampant.

One of my children attends an upscale school like this because I want real secular academics. I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar demographics. The benefit to DC's private school is it is Torah based, and you only have great kids there. All sleeze can be weeded out. You can't do this in a public school.

The kids in the upscale private school are just as great socially and have just as great values as the kids in private schools with less money. They are probably more ambitious career wise.

I am not niave enough not to be aware there are yeshiva kids who are into drugs. One school (not DC's expelled 14 kids for smoking pot last May including graduating seniors.) Other schools move troubled kids out. There is something to the broken windows theory.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 6:28 am

I say that since so many individuals were killed or injured with that same type of firearm, every family of a victim must join a class action lawsuit against the manufacturer of the gun, the ammunition, and the stores that sell them.

We would do that for a dangerous crib and many dangerous products have been removed from store shelves for posing a danger because people don't use them for the use that they were created for (apparently hunting and target shooting).

When Ikea's dressers started falling on and crushing children to death, they posted warnings and sold wall anchors to solve the problem. Why are gun manufacturers given a free pass to sell their wares to the community without warning the general public of their extreme danger to multiple humans?

The walkout is a nice start but needs to be followed up by action in the courts. How about marching in front of and picketing gun dealers? How about organizing a boycott of general merchandise stores that also sell guns? Amazon.com has loads of accessories for the AR15. Why are we still buying everything on earth from Amazon? Maybe it is time to say, get rid of all AR15 items or we will find an alternative to Amazon.

Do we care enough to tell Amazon that if they continue to sell items related to the AR15, we will stop doing business with them?

I support the walkout 100% but it is not enough. We need massive lawsuits and boycotts. We need to vote with our wallets.

↑ sushilover ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 6:55 am

southernbubby wrote:

Why are you so disturbed by the AR15 in particular? Did you know that according to the FBI, rifles of all kinds accounted for just 3 percent of firearm homicides in 2016?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-t.....4.xls

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 6:57 am

sushilover wrote:

Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:

Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.
Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.
June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.
Mor

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 7:00 am

sushilover wrote:

Also, getting rid of one type of automatic or semi-automatic rifle is a start. We are not going to rid the country of all firearms, nor should we attempt to. There would be too much push back for that. There should be a concentrated effort to start with this type of weapon which is what the state of CT did.

↑ SixOfWands ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 7:20 am

sushilover wrote:

Again, why do those deaths perturb you more than handgun deaths?
Over 7,000 people were murdered by handguns, and you want to devote your energy banning a different gun

So we shouldn’t do anything about preventable deaths because we can’t solve everything. Gotcha.

Do we apply this elsewhere? People die in car accidents even with seatbelts. Let’s not have car safety regulations. People die of disease, so let’s not prevent those we can. In 2016, there were more than 63,600 drug overdose deaths in the United States. Making drugs illegal hasn’t helped. Let’s put heroin dispensers in high schools, and give every teacher Narcan.

Banning the AR 15 is the start, not the end.

Raisin ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 7:29 am

sushilover wrote:

Again, why do those deaths perturb you more than handgun deaths?
Over 7,000 people were murdered by handguns, and you want to devote your energy banning a different gun

I dpn't see why guns should be legal at all. But I guess people can make the arguement that not allowing assault type weapons that can kill 50 people in a minute or two is a) easier for people to stomach since it still allows guns b) will hopefully cause less deaths. If Cruz had only had a handgun he would likely have killed less people. b) Seems these types of guns are most often used in the showy type of mass murders where many people are killed. Other gun deaths are more likely, I imagine, to be crime related, and even banning guns altogether would not prevent these types of deaths. (criminals will probably get hold of guns anyway) And lets be honest. We are all a lot more horrified when many innocent schoolchildren or concert goers are gunned down then when it is 3 drug dealers in the inner city.

↑ sushilover ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 7:31 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Sigh.
It may shock you that someone wants to actually hear the 'other side' before jumping to conclusions. I asked my question, not because I think "we shouldn't do anything about preventable deaths", but because I honestly want to know the answer. Please don't attribute to me evil motives simply because I don't think that banning the AR15 will do much about gun related deaths in America.

Why start with the AR15?
Do people who die by AR15 feel more pain than handgun victims?

↑ SixOfWands ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 7:42 am

sushilover wrote:

Your question has been answered over and over.

The AR 15 is the weapon of choice for mass murderers. Moreover, serious hunters say that it is not an appropriate hunting weapon, and it is not a particularly good home security weapon. The best that can be said is that it’s apparently really fun to shoot.

On balance, there is no reason for it to be commercially available.

↑ sushilover ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 7:56 am

Raisin wrote:

So it's mass shootings you'd like to prevent.

I have a problem with this. I agree that America has a gun homicide problem, but it's not a mass shooting problem. When you look at the per capita numbers, we have a higher rate of gun homicides than Europe, but the rate of mass shootings is virtually the same as Europe.

https://crimeresearch.org/2015.....rope/

↑ sushilover ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 8:13 am

SixOfWands wrote:

Your question has been answered over and over.

Was it?
Before Raisin gave an answer, all I got was a list of AR15 victims and that AR15 "is a start".

Raisin had a clear answer. She thinks mass shooting are worse than drug or gang related shootings. (my response is that mass shootings are terrible, but America doesn't have a mass shooting problem, although we do have a gun violence problem.)

SixOfWands wrote:

The AR 15 is the weapon of choice for mass murderers. Moreover, serious hunters say that it is not an appropriate hunting weapon, and it is not a particularly good home security weapon. The best that can be said is that it’s apparently really fun to shoot.

On balance, there is no reason for it to be commercially available.

AR-15 is good home defense gun, specifically for women because of its low recoil.

↑ WhatFor ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 9:01 am

sushilover wrote:

You do realize that your numbers are sourced to a site founded by a famously pro-gun activist who has been accused of having all of their studies funded by the NRA, right? And that Europe, does not, in fact, have issues with children routinely coming into schools and murdering tens of students like the US does, right?

↑ WhatFor

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 9:06 am

sushilover wrote:

Raisin had a clear answer. She thinks mass shooting are worse than drug or gang related shootings. (my response is that mass shootings are terrible, but America doesn't have a mass shooting problem, although we do have a gun violence problem.)

Take a quick look at this list of mass shootings in the year 2018 (meaning, just in the past seven weeks.) Can you explain why you don't think this is a problem? Can you replicate this amount of mass shootings in the past seven weeks in any first world European country? Thank you.

http://www.gunviolencearchive......oting

↑ Raisin

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 9:09 am

sushilover wrote:

That article tells me that Europe (especially specific countries) has a terrorism problem. Most of those really big attacks are terror related. (and involved lots of planning, many people, and illegal guns. Not quite as easy as a teenager walking into walmart and buying an assault rifle) The Norway attack was politically motivated. The guy who did it had well thought out reasons for doing it. But random crazy people deciding today would be a good day to kill lots of people? And, who also seem to enjoy targeting children? I would like to see a similar list excluding terror or politically motivated attacks.

I think all shootings are bad. Every single one. Not just mass killings. But mass shootings do evoke a stronger media reaction.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 9:16 am

sushilover wrote:

AR-15 is good home defense gun, specifically for women because of its low recoil.

There may be thousands of AR-15s out there that have never been used to kill a human but because of some bad actors, these need to be outlawed, very much the way that most Ikea dressers never fell on a toddler but action must be taken because of those that did.

Personally, I would not want something that large and deadly in my home.

Another factor is that unlike Israel, America does no risk assessment before issuing a gun license or selling someone a gun. Too many of these rapid fire rifles are finding their way into the hands of dangerous people.

I agree with the students who want to make sure that no one else suffers the way that they just did.

↑ sushilover ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 9:24 am

WhatFor wrote:

Do you think they are being unfair with how they are sourcing their numbers? Or do you think that any statistic coming from someone who is pro gun rights is inherently false?

I chose that source because they were very clear about what is considered a mass shooting, and there aren't many other sources that discuss the per capita rate (which is the only useful numbers when talking about statistics.)

Find me a better source and we can discuss it. Just note that simply saying it's a site by pro gun activist is not an actual argument against his numbers.

↑ Deep ↓

Sun, Feb 18 2018, 9:30 am

This is not uncharted territory. Other countries have been in similar positions and the USA would be smart to learn from their experiences. In 1996. a crazed gunman opened fire in Port Arthur, Australia. He killed 35 and injured 23 people who were innocently shopping. The government responded by developing strict gun control laws. In the 22 years since, there have been two episodes of attempted mass shooting. Both gunmen were armed with handguns and were able to kill 2 people before they were stopped.
This is long, but worth the read. Especially the detailed description of the exact gun control laws that were implemented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.....ralia