S/o Foreigners opinion of US politics

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 10:35 am

amother wrote:

I keep seeing this sentiment on here against universal healthcare expressed by those in the US. I know that this comment in particular was only in relation to Canada though it's been mentioned recently against others as well. I don't understand it. I live in the UK and it makes things so much easier that healthcare is provided for. Whoever wants a higher level of care takes out health insurance and goes private. Just like you have to do now. So how can the fact that it's even just there as an option, not be a big plus?

I know someone who was very glad that she was in the US when she fell ill instead of her birth country, which was great for preventative and maintenance care, but had long waiting lines and age rationing for acute, critical care.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 10:39 am

zohar wrote:

The reason America is so different than other countries that it was founded in a way to insure the individual's freedom from government. And put in checks and balances to make sure that the government does not become totalitarian. I remember being surprised that other Western countries do not grant their citizens some rights that Americans look at as basic. Namely, freedom of speech. In countries like the U.K. and Canada, citizens can be prosecuted for "hate speech". And I'm surprised that so many Americans are so eager to give up their rights for handouts.

Also, as an aside, Canada can only afford their entitlement programs because they know they don't have to invest much in their military because of the U.S.

I think they all fall under the rubric of malchus shel chessed, in which can live and express ourselves as ovdei Hashem. In which case, all great countries, in my book.

Of course, there is the principle of chein hamakom, or whatever the chazal is, that we have a soft spot for our hometowns.

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 10:45 am

PinkFridge wrote:

How much did it cost her to get treated in the US? Dh was in the states and slipped on the ice. He had an x-ray done and we were billed almost 3000$! Thankfully, we had travel insurance. I cannot imagine what the people who are too "rich" for medicaid yet cannot afford insurance (or can only afford insurance with hefty co-pays) do! As others on this thread have noted, countries that have universal healthcare systems also allow you to pay privately if you so wish. If you need to have a specialized test done and the wait at the hospital is long, there are many private clinics you can use, for a reasonable fee.

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:02 pm

amother wrote:

Our health care system is not perfect, *because* of the lack of free market and government over-regulation. Where it succeeds is to the extent it is rewarded by the free market. We were hoping much of the over-regulation would be undone by Trump. Let people purchase insurance across state lines, and insurance companies be forced to compete for customers based on quality of service offered and pricing.

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:09 pm

amother wrote:

Americans are the most patriotic nation on Earth, which is admirable! They are also very America-centric and live in a somewhat delusional bubble. I have heard many Americans confidently assert that "everyone wants to be American"! This was likely true through the first part of the 20th century, but is no longer the case. Americans backpacking through Europe are known to place Canadian tags on their rucksacks in order to avoid the negative vibes Americans often have to endure.
You are all very intelligent women, and it is difficult to acknowledge that you have been indoctrinated to believe that America is the greatest nation. Besides for the issues already mentioned above, America is the Western country with the most prisoners and gun murders in proportion to their population. They also have a long way to go in terms of racial relations.

And yet, the waiting lists at the US embassy for people looking to emigrate is far longer than others. But I do agree with what Nicki Haley said recently at the UN. We're not appreciated, despite what we do for the world.

Race relations, really?

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:18 pm

amother wrote:

Which of

Switzerland
Australia
Norway
Sweden
Denmark

are imploding from debt?

So the question is, Why are socialist policies not *always* all harmful? Because obviously you left those countries off.

Answer: Allocation of resources. One factor is, the countries you listed put less money into defense, their own as well as NATO, to which the US contributes far more than its fair share.

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:25 pm

Smokey, the more you try to blindly defend your country, the more you are proving my point. American exceptionalism is clouding your judgement. The USA has made many invaluable contributions to the world and continues to be a beacon of light and a global superpower.
On the other hand, Americans rank low on every quality of life index. There is no perfect utopia, but some countries do afford their citizens a better life than others.

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:31 pm

amother wrote:

Your position is frankly shocking to me. Like I said earlier, most of the world relies on the US for military and/or financial aid. How can you deny this?

As far as policies, this is a basic difference between right and left here, politically. And why many Americans elected Trump. We believe that the free market is better economically than socialism.

Anyway if you're interested in reading more about policies, and Sweden (not sure if you were the amother who mentioned it), here's an interesting take.

https://capx.co/scandinavian-u.....lure/

wrote:

As late as 1975 Sweden was ranked as the 4th richest nation in the world according to OECD measures. The policy shift that occurred dramatically slowed down the growth rate. Sweden dropped to 13th place in the mid‑1990s. In 2014, following a period of recovery from the country’s crisis and significant free market and tax reduction reforms that followed, Sweden had risen to 8th position.

Iow, Sweden is doing well because of its earlier free-market policies, and *despite* the more recent socialist tilt

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:34 pm

amother wrote:

As far as a perfect utopia, I don't know anyone who said that the US is. It surely isn't.

Personally, I find it interesting and useful to look at policies and ask, Which policies are better or worse--which promote economic growth, better access to better health care for more people, etc?

I don't think the US success was caused by anything intrinsically special about the US (other than maybe bracha from H'...); rather it was due to implementation of successful policies. And also the American spirit of entreprenuralism and value of individualism, dating back to the country's founding.

SpottedBanana

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:39 pm

Sorry if someone has already said this, but those quality of life indices are ridiculous, because the US is waaay, waaay bigger than all the "great" countries like Denmark, Singapore, etc. Huge country = lots of waste, hard to take care of everyone. The US is also far more friendly to corporations than European countries (with the exception of tax havens), leading to less quality of life for the common man but more long-term job security for the country because a large number of giant corporations are here.

Also, @Europe: We gave you $12 billion after WWII ($164 billion in today's dollars). Before you criticize us, can we get that money back? Thanks.

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:40 pm

"Your position is frankly shocking to me. Like I said earlier, most of the world relies on the US for military and/or financial aid. How can you deny this? "

I have not denied this! To the contrary, I have repeatedly reiterated that the USA is a global superpower and a beacon to others! But that is only one aspect of what makes a country great.

amother

↑ Silver ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 12:55 pm

amother wrote:

I think I picked the top five 'places to live' from the list I picked up. to demonstrate that not all countries with good social policy are imploding debt as you suggested. Clearly some are, but its not a rule - good social policy = imploding with debt.

why these countries are able to have better social benefits than the US is a completely separate discussion.

amother

↑ Plum ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 1:51 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

There are no long waiting lines anywhere if you pay for private insurance/ care like you do in the US. And also, universal healthcare is available in many countries so an issue in one country doesn't translate automatically to an issue across the board.

Universal healthcare isn't always perfect, though it's definitely a huge advantage.

England has its flaws too, though it's a fact that people in the US have to work much harder to sustain a Jewish lifestyle. It's much more uncommon in England for a mother of young children to be working full-time. And even when they do need to, maternity leave is 9 months.

As kids, we used to always think that everyone in America is rich. Lol.

↑ Chana Miriam S

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 1:55 pm

amother wrote:

Somebody's paying the bill....

Yes, our income taxes are much higher. But it’s nice having a years maternity leave at 55% of your salary and if people breastfeed, overall infant and maternal health is improved. So we are willing to have less disposable income to pay for these things and willing to pay them because they improve our society. Like paying school taxes when your kids are grown. Or subsidized universities and colleges which we also have.

amother

↑ Copper ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:09 pm

Americans don't seem to realize what they are missing.

There are often threads here of women who are afraid to tell their bosses that they are pregnant. In Canada, many industries are considered harmful to pregnant women, and you receive 90% of your income as disability payments as soon as you find out that you are pregnant . This includes anyone who comes into contact with young children, hence a huge chunk of working frum women. You can then get another year of maternity leave and your husband gets a month of paternity leave too. And your job is secured.

Daycare is subsidized at a rate of 7$/day (Quebec). Top notch centers with high educator:children ratios. You can also receive approximately 400$/month/child in general child care benefits. People use this to pay for a nanny, private babysitter or tuition for older children.

There is a universal child benefit in addition to significant benefits that are indexed to your income.

College and university are heavily subsidized.

These are just some of the factors that make it significantly easier to live a frum life.

amother

↑ Coffee ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:25 pm

WHY do (some) Americans have this need to prove that America is better than anywhere else? Why is it not okay to simply say, America works for me, I'm glad I live here, but there are other countries that are also good for their inhabitants? Or maybe even to concede that the American dream works well for certain groups but not for others?

amother

↑ Smokey ↓

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 2:43 pm

amother wrote:

The premise of this thread is an attack. Don't you Americans realize how ridiculous you all are for electing such a laughingstock? Why don't you care that everyone else thinks that of you?

Actually, no and no. Everyone is welcome to their opinions, but if you (not you personally) are trying to honestly understand how we-who-elected-Trump see things, some of us here were trying to explain.

SixOfWands

Wed, Jan 10 2018, 3:02 pm

zohar wrote:

Trump today stated that the US Constitutional protections of the press / First Amendment are "a sham and a disgrace, and do not represent American values."