Lakewood offensive sign?

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 5:32 am

There isn't a whole lot of info out there on who the man was and who his sign was intended for and why or why he was questioned by the police.

It also doesn't matter how many people share his POV.

His sign also says nothing about government benefits because he himself may be on them.

If government benefits are a bone of contention, he can contact his local representative.

If we are going to change anything as a community, whether it is Lakewood, Monsey, or Detroit, it has to be an inside job for us the insiders. Our rabbonim need to address the issues that hamper our growth as a community and the outside world, so far, doesn't have the right or the clout to demand that we change the way that we live.

We should realize that outsiders will be seeking ways to limit the expansion of frum communities. We don't make their schools or communities better places. There may be more job opportunities for some of them as a result of frum expansion, but others may be pushed out.

We should also educate ourselves as to what some Republican state governments are doing to shorten the length of time that someone can get government benefits. The ideal is that benefits should be a means to an end rather than a means to themselves. That being said, we probably do over-generalize about the amount of frum people who remain on the types of benefits typically reserved for the poor, for life. We tend to think in terms of large families who qualify, despite a job that pays well but those kids grow up and age out and eventually the household grows smaller and the benefits are no longer applicable.

We should also realize that we have political clout in large communities and those who don't benefit from the politicians who help us will be angry but that is not an issue that we need to deal with. We voted, they lost. They can take their anger out at the polls in the next election.

↑ SuperWify

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 5:45 am

jkl wrote:

Why is pointing out issues in our society considered hate? Is there something wrong with wanting our society to recognize our ills and trying to do better for our next generation?

It is the tone my dear. We know our issues. Debating them (rudely) on the internet while bashing an amazing community isn’t going to make matters better.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 5:45 am

SuperWify wrote:

For all you complaining that Frum Lakewood kids get private bussing. Whats a better alternative? That we send our kids to public school WITH private bussing?
I really don’t understand your logic. It would cost a lot more if our kids weren’t in private schools.

When the busing was being threatened to being done away with, a bunch of parents wanted to show the community what their morning commute would look like if a bunch of cars were all on the roads, taking the kids to their schools. The buses were obviously the better alternative.

↑ RebekahsMom ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:02 am

SuperWify wrote:

How do you figure? If the kids are all in public school, each entire neighborhood is going to one of 3 schools (primary/ middle/ high). Obviously there are multiple schools across town, but you go your local one. Each large bus would be filled, transporting up to 72 children a much shorter distance.

Furthermore, each bus stop is a centralized area within 1-2 blocks of your house, so there aren’t as many stops. A public bus, even living 2 miles from your school as I do, takes under 20 minutes.

How many children get off of any one private school bus? I’m sure it’s not 70, and if it is, those kids sat there forever because the school takes children from all over town.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:05 am

RebekahsMom wrote:

Good point and some kids walk to school.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:39 am

RebekahsMom wrote:

What??? Do you know how much it would cost the township if all private school children started going to public school?

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:41 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

What??? Do you know how much it would cost the township if all private school children started going to public school?

I think that school districts get federal money for each student and that they want as many students as possible. Why is it that we never hear of public schools telling people not to come? Or that they should consider private schools in order that they not burden the government?

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:47 am

southernbubby wrote:

It's half federal and half local property taxes. Trust me, if all the kids would go to public school out taxes would go through the roof.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:52 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

It's half federal and half local property taxes. Trust me, if all the kids would go to public school out taxes would go through the roof.

It does look to me that some public school officials in Crown Heights are happy not to have all of the frum kids but by the same token, when the residents of a community all support the same schools, the quality of those schools usually increase, unless of course the community is made up of people who don't value education.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:53 am

southernbubby wrote:

New York and New jersey work very differently.

dancingqueen ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 6:53 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Most young couples I know who are in kollel are either living poor, or they have support, or the wife has a good job. If they have support, then they can be genuinely eligible for programs even though mommy just bought her a new bugaboo.
I honestly think you're generalizing to an extreme. There are very few kollel couples who are paying multiple tuitions and are still being supported by their parents, but if they are, this is legitimate, and please don't be jealous. And please don't overgeneralize.

From reading threads here it seems pretty common for a kollel wife to work but also get a lot of support so why would it be hard to believe that they have luxurious items but also welfare?

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 7:00 am

dancingqueen wrote:

From reading threads here it seems pretty common for a kollel wife to work but also get a lot of support so why would it be hard to believe that they have luxurious items but also welfare?

If they are paying multiple tuitions then it's very unlikely they are still getting support.... so the composite picture presented would be very rare. And it's not as common to get huge support the way it sounds here on this forum. Parents don't typically support more than a few years.
IF this woman is getting support, she could very well be eligible for food stamps even though she has designer everything.
If this is actually the picture, why does it bother the previous poster? It's not nice to be jealous.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 7:08 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

It's not nice to be jealous but another poster on imamother just opened a new thread about how hard it is to be a "have not" in a community like Lakewood. When the bar is too high, people feel frustrated that what others have is out of reach for them.

Also, unless someone discloses where their designer stuff came from, it might have been bought second hand or have been used by someone else in the family. Owning designer stuff doesn't mean that someone paid top dollar for it and even baby strollers are sold second hand so people who are on SNAP may just be good shoppers.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 7:15 am

southernbubby wrote:

I did not want to respond on the other thread as I did not want to derail ops thread... but there are a lot different neighborhoods in Lakewood. Not all of them are like that. And someone who really wants to stay in kollel long term knows they will have to stick to a simpler lifestyle, no matter what others are doing.
The previous poster seemed very angry that someone could have a designer carriage and receive food stamps. So she painted this broad picture of a Lakewood that I don't see exists...
And like you said, she could just be a good shopper (probably the real reason).

↑ dancingqueen ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 7:16 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

As previously clarified welfare can include wic food stamps Medicaid. So mix that with pushing around a bugaboo and doona with designer baby clothes as another thread stated is necessary to keep up with the other young moms in Lakewood.

↑ Mommyg8 ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 7:19 am

dancingqueen wrote:

You can't afford a bugaboo if you are eligible for wic, at least I couldn't, unless it's a gift or you're dipping into savings. So her gripe would have validity, IF TRUE.

↑ benny ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 7:19 am

southernbubby wrote:

Do you get that Lakewood is huge and has recently expanded to be ever huger with lots and lots of ppl who never learnt a day in kollel? You are taking many different walks of life who all happen to live within a few miles radius and clumping them all together. I didn’t read the post about being a have not but who says that has any connection to the kollel crowd??

↑ southernbubby ↓

Fri, Dec 08 2017, 7:41 am

benny wrote:

Where did I mention Kollel in this context?? I simply said Lakewood. I don't remember attacking kollel anywhere and only said that it is natural for outsiders to be suspicious if a large group of people are on government benefits for a long period of time. We saw this during those raids this past summer. Those raids probably caused a lot more people to have misconceptions about both kollel and Lakewood. And after those raids, lots of people in Lakewood, including probably some non-Jews, came forward to learn how to do these things legally and change anything that wasn't legal. Some were granted amnesty for coming forward.
And as was stated on imamother, some of the charges of welfare fraud were baseless but while the media reports the raid on the front page, they put the acquittals in small print behind the classifieds, so we can also blame the media for these misconceptions.