Was there collusion?

↑ 33055 ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 3:41 pm

Mommyg8 wrote:

I remember reading that the high school graduation rate of Hispanics is around 60%, forget about the college degree rates. BUT, I'm still not convinced that immigration is a bad thing. They do take all the jobs that Americans wouldn't do, and for less money. I would think that creates a win-win situation for both immigrants and native born Americans.

Also, I would think that almost all of the African Americans who WANT a job, have one.

No. You are not even close. So sad that there aren't jobs for Americans. How is that a win win for them?

How is this a win for me who is a local tax payer who has to support them?

dancingqueen

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 3:43 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

You're right, it's not an answer. I think what they're saying is, what a chutzpah, coming from a Hillary supporter, to talk about fairness and integrity. There's just something absurdly comical about that. She has no legitimacy or credibility when it comes to playing fair and following the rules.

There is no more Hillary to support. She’s done. Her political career is over.

Let’s talk about Trump now.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 3:46 pm

Squishy wrote:

The dropout rate is 21% verses 5.9 %.

Anyone's individual story is sad, but you must look at the aggregate when setting policy. You can't look at whether one Southern Bubby deserves a job more than one illegal immigrant. You need to look at whether our poorest deserve jobs more. If African Americans will be hurt, why should they because of illegal immigrants?

You also need to look at chain migration and the increase in illegal immigration DACA will cause. You also need to look at how burdensome federal policies are on local municipalities. Who pays for DACA?

The question asked over and over is whether or not the African Americans would have sought those jobs, accepted those jobs, stayed at those jobs, and why the employers accepted illegal immigrants rather than paying more for real Americans. It is the same thing with a southern bubby. Why did the employer pick her over the chance to really help another person? Is it because the employer is looking out for himself and figures that the bubby is a safer bet?

The government needs to limit and set a cut off so that more immigrants won't sneak their kids in and then claim their rights to stay. I don't know what percentage of my local municipality is illegal. Even legal citizens here cost the government and municipality plenty but if we want laws to work, we have to enforce them. If we don't do an adequate job patrolling boarders or we look the other way at illegal workers, then we can't blame the kids for being here illegally.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 3:48 pm

Squishy wrote:

No. You are not even close. So sad that there aren't jobs for Americans. How is that a win win for them?

How is this a win for me who is a local tax payer who has to support them?

But Squishy, the crops are supposedly rotting in the fields of California because we have done a better job of policing immigration since Trump took office. Where are the Americans that are supposed to be in the fields now?

↑ shoshanim999 ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 3:55 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

There is no more Hillary to support. She’s done. Her political career is over.

Let’s talk about Trump now.

But that's just it. Nobody really wants to talk about Trump and his policies. There is a desperation to find dirt about Trump and his candidacy. This is undoubtedly coming from people who are pro Hillary.

PinkFridge ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 3:57 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Psssst, the Trump administration has already moved on from the question of "was there collusion." Their stance now is, "Yeah, what of it?"

Funny how Hillary colluded with the Russians to hack her own emails and hand the election to DJT. Fascinating that Hillary orchestrated a meeting between Russia and Donald Trump Jr to dish dirt on herself. You gotta wonder what other strings Hillary is pulling behind the scenes. I bet she's the one making Trump tweet crazy stuff too.

IN any case, the question of collusion isn't going to be decided by opinion polls or Breitbart News. There's already overwhelming evidence of collusion as well as betrayal of the US. Mueller would not have struck a deal with Flynn unless he had major goods on someone very high up in the Trump administration.

As long as it's not Pence.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:01 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

[u]

No need to wonder, I can tell you. She deleted over 17,000 emails. She claimed she didn't realize that many of the emails containing information about drone strikes were classified. She wiped her server clean. She had 13 blackberries and 5 ipads. Many of these devices were destroyed BY HAMMER after usage. I'm sure that's how most people discard their devices when they have no use for them anymore. We knew this information when she was a candidate. Only in America would a person like this be allowed to continue to pursue her candidacy. She should have been disqualified. Did I mention that she had the questions to the debate ahead of time?

Yes, we know why so many people couldn't vote for Hillary.
But she's not in the Oval Office now.

↑ shoshanim999

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:15 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Yes, we know why so many people couldn't vote for Hillary.
But she's not in the Oval Office now.

I agree. However any attempt to talk about collusion with the Russians is really just sour grapes. I am sure both candidates were dirty during the election. I have a laundry list of things that I have a problem with since trump took office. If Hillary supporters steer the conversation to the when trump was a candidate, and about his shinanigans with the Russians, I am compelled to look at where these people are coming from and are they really being sincere. A quick look (really a slight glance) at the candidate they were supporting tells us that they really don't care about morals or ethics. It's simply anti trump rhetoric.

↑ 33055 ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:16 pm

southernbubby wrote:

With your logic we can t blame any criminals for anything. We should have had better systems I place to prevent crimes.

We owe it to our citizens first. We need to take care of our own first. Perhaps the employer picked Southern Bubby because she is better educated. Perhaps he can make more money hiring her.

We need to enforce the existing laws. DACA's genesis is an illegal executive order. If this was voted in, then I wouldn't be so opposed.

↑ Laiya ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:17 pm

Jeanette wrote:

Communication does not mean collusion. It's expected for a president-elect to reach out and make contact with foreign governments, which is what the administration "admitted" to.

↑ 33055 ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:18 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Have the Dreamers pick them. Seriously, any amnesty should include service to America and no chain migration.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:21 pm

Squishy wrote:

Have the Dreamers pick them. Seriously, any amnesty should include service to America and no chain migration.

That probably isn't a bad idea if it is feasible to round up all the Dreamers and shlep them to wherever the crops need picking. It is sort of hard, however, to corral the horses after the barn was left open and it is one thing to make a law for the future and another to say that Dreamers must drop whatever they are doing and hightail it to California and pick crops.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:25 pm

Squishy wrote:

Yes, we should have had better systems in place to prevent crimes. When laws are not enforced, crimes happen and people stop viewing them as crimes. The financial crimes that have occurred in frum communities happened because the laws were not adequately enforced and people got used to skirting, flouting, breaking etc, those laws. Then along came officials that said that they only had a small amount of time before those laws would be enforced and no one listened. Then came the arrests and it is a shame because do we blame our own people for breaking laws that were not really being enforced? People had been getting away with it for years, apparently.

Rubber Ducky ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:28 pm

Back to illegal/undocumented workers: Illegal immigration isn't just about who harvests produce. I see construction jobs, landscaping jobs, and housekeeper/nanny/health care aide jobs in my area going to non-English speaking workers, most of them Latino. Many of these positions would otherwise go to Americans both black and white.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:31 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

Probably they go to illegals because they are cheaper and in some cases no one has applied for those jobs. In NY, most restaurant workers are illegal. It goes with the territory. Are others applying for those jobs and if not, then why not?

↑ 33055 ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:39 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

Gardener jobs paying union wages and prevailing wages are going to illegal immigrants. Government contracts support those jobs. And yes, I am 100% certain of this because of personal knowledge. White Americans, black Americans, Hispanic AMERICANS, native Americans should be given priority for government funded work before one illegal gets the job.

My tax dollars paying crazy wages would hurt less if I knew Americans benefited rather than the money being transferred to a foreign country.

↑ 33055 ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:42 pm

Rubber Ducky wrote:

Many of these positions are filled "word of mouth" rather than through advertising. The guys who mow our lawn are white (not Jewish), and I wonder how the young frum entrepreneur who hired them found them.

Many of the frum guys here broker out contacts. The illegals do the work. The frum guy usually doesn't add value, but he has the yeshiva connections.

↑ 33055 ↓

Sun, Dec 03 2017, 4:48 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I don't know about your community, but in mine the guys starting out all only want to be managers. They manage jobs that they don't even know how to do.

DH gets asked to hire young inexperienced men. They want to start out supervising. shock