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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

Double standard

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↑ amother ↓

Tue, Apr 24 2007, 5:55 am

nylon wrote:

You wouldn't keep a separate set of dishes for treif take out either...

you'd be surprised cause I know s/o that does

greenfire ↓

Tue, Apr 24 2007, 6:01 am

There are a lot of things in life that are double standard unfortunately. However, you must live your lives despite because we are living for Hashem not the neighbor or the community. If I were to base my life on the constant discretions of those around me I would not be frum at all.

↑ brooklyn

Tue, Apr 24 2007, 6:09 am

I agree with what green said. There are many times when I see things being done by the supposed "frum frum people that quite frankly makes me feel embarrassed to be a Jew. But then I say to myself that this is being done by an individual and that I should not judge everyone by what that one person did. I have said in passing to Dh that if I wasn't Jewish, I would probably be a very big anti-semite, seeing the things that I have seen done bt certain frum Jews.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Apr 24 2007, 10:38 am

Brooklyn sometimes I am totally disgusted too. When I hear about tefillin dates, frum brothels, "gedolim" who abuse their family and other horrors... Mad

Quite a long time ago my dad made alia and lived in a charedi area. There he witnessed all kind of nasty stuff. Frum girls from choshuve families who dressed like sl*ts outside of the frum area, abuses of all kinds...
He owned a clothes shop for men. Often he had to call the police because yeshiva bochurim would come and try to look at the guys changing, his neighbour even complained that they were using his garrage as a "meeting" place shock

The worst was a (kosher) factory of canned meat. One day it was discovered that they had been chasing, killing and using the neighborhood cats to have free meat and make more benefits.... kosher le meadrin indeed Puke

The winner is probably that guy who was SO frum and the Cohen in a well known shul in NY. He emigrated after the war, but here he is better known for having been a "useful Jew" (collaborator) who fought with his son and had him sent to Auschwitz as a revenge.

So yeah, double standards exist... and movies are the not the worst thing.

shayna82

Tue, Apr 24 2007, 10:40 am

o man ruchel those things are horrible. yes in the realms of things, movies are not horrible.

↑ greenfire ↓

Tue, Apr 24 2007, 10:43 am

Ruchel ... that post actually made me sick Puke

physically

↑ Ruchel

Tue, Apr 24 2007, 11:03 am

I'm sorry ladies... I just had to put things in perspective... (I was traumatized too when I learned about it).

↑ amother ↓

Sun, May 20 2007, 1:07 am

Amother... just because.

First of all- what makes someone charedi? I count myself charedi- I have lived in both Charedi and MO circles, and I'm definitely to the right of MO. So that makes me charedi. And I'm quite machmir in many many many areas.
Yes, I watch movies sometimes. And yes, sometimes my husband watches them with me. But I cover the screen if there is anything my husband shouldn't be seeing. I don't like it as much when my husband watches movies, because he has the issur of seeing women untznius. But I can't control him.

My husband and I both come from MO backgrounds, in which certain things were really really lax for us. Yes, we've come a long way, but we still have more to go. Yes, we watch movies sometimes, but we know that it's not ideal. We're trying to grow. But in my opinion, sometimes you need to have one outlet to prevent you from slipping back too far.
And when I have kids, I probably won't watch movies around them. If I'd watch a movie, it would only be when they weren't home to see it. (I don't beleive in having a TV/video in the bedroom, because that is a holy place.)
I am trying to cut back on my movies- they're a waste of time and not exactly what a bas yisrael like me should be watching, but sometimes I am really bored. Or if I'm sick. Or otherwise.
But I'm growing.

Motek

Mon, May 21 2007, 11:49 am

shalhevet wrote:

we asked our rav about having a computer and Internet. I am the only one in the house who uses the computer (not to speak of the Internet) and only for work and ... you've guessed it... Imamother Wink

. I don't even go to links people post here in case I find something I shouldn't.

You have mentioned that you asked about having Internet for work and were told you could. Does that mean you can use it only for work? Did you ask separately about Imamother?

LubavitchLeah

Mon, May 21 2007, 5:28 pm

I have an issue here with this old card that keeps getting played, namely some yidden telling others' they are "hypocrites" or live double standards.
Sure we should ALL ASPIRE to live purely Ruchniusdik lives, no pritzus, no temptations to succumb too, etc etc BUT reality is that we are( as someone most eloquently put) not angels and always struggle with these temptations.
If for example a yid keeps TH, but does not keep kashrus, well B"H she is at least keeping TH. Rather than say HYPOCRITE she should either decide to keep all torah laws or live a purely gashmius life. People are not black and white, dont fit into perfect little boxes, we are rainbows and are often dynamic in our observance levels. So pleasse all those self rightious critiques out there, rather than say the glass is half empty, see it as half full, if a yid is davening, studying Torah in a kolel and keeping high levels of Kashrus, however the yid has a weakness for movies, dont be so punitive and critical in your judgements, we strive for higher levels but we dont all achieve and we each have our areas that are harder to work on.

However I do understand your point regarding labels. Chereidi is a label that has certain minimum expectations attached and as you pointed out, watching movies is a no no in Chereidi circles. Ofcourse all labels have the perfect Do's and Donts attached to them, but people are human with foibles often struggling to steer away from the sitra Achra so to speak.

Watching movies may be a HUGE temptation for a Yid who otherwise may follow an exemplory "Chereidi" life, just like always keeping hair covered may take extra hard Avodah for others'. We all have our internal/personal/individual struggle with one aspect of Gashmius that others' cannot relate to. This does not mean we should be shouting Hypocrite from the rooftops.

cdawnr

Mon, May 21 2007, 8:37 pm

First of all, I want to express just how sad Crying

it makes me that we now judge each other on whether one watches television or movies... I do't own a television, but I read secular novels and I don't feel like I am going to rot...I feel like if I didn't have that one outlet for me than I would burst, implode, spit flames out of my mouth and make the life of everyone around me miserable!

I do agree that much of what is on television and movies is complete shtuz, and not just for the untznius dress. However, I wouldn't condemn anyone based on that. I personally think cheating on taxes is a far greater aveira!

I think that big problem here is the labelling.

I think in America there is a lot more flecibility in the titles, but still a lot of judging by what someone wears.

In Israel, if one isn't Modern Orthodox one must be Charedi or vice versa...well, people don't all fit into boxes and people have to try to find their place.

As for the parents watching but not letting their children. Yes, it seems hypocritical unless you look at it from the view of them wanting their children to be greater than they are. They use the headphones because they know that it is not the ideal but it is not soemthing they are ready to be without...but that doesn't mean they want to expose their children to it. There are lots of things I know about and do that I don't necessarily want my children doing, I just haven't worked them out of my life yet.

And then I have a question. Just how do you know that the dvds they are watching aren't clean? Maybe they adore Finding Nemo or they watch March of the Penguins a lot.

↑ amother ↓

Fri, Aug 03 2007, 1:32 pm

shalhevet wrote:

. I don't even go to links people post here in case I find something I shouldn't.

Only imamother shalhevet? Why then, do I see you posting on another forum? Did you ask your rav? And the lashon hara there, oy vey!

Hannah!

Fri, Aug 03 2007, 1:42 pm

edit

Last edited by Hannah! on Tue, May 06 2008, 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ amother ↓

Fri, Aug 03 2007, 1:44 pm

Read what she wrote there and theeeeeeen decide Twisted Evil

↑ chocolate moose ↓

Fri, Aug 03 2007, 1:54 pm

It's a lady's perogative to change her mind.

↑ greenfire

Fri, Aug 03 2007, 5:22 pm

hm ... so are we changing our minds again ... that only works for which pair of shoes to wear ...

↑ amother

Sat, Aug 04 2007, 11:53 am

just curious , which forum is this?

↑ mimivan

Sat, Aug 04 2007, 1:29 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

It's a lady's perogative to change her mind.

CM, you are so cute!! Rolling Laughter

↑ chocolate moose

Sat, Aug 04 2007, 7:36 pm

mimivan wrote:

chocolate moose wrote:

It's a lady's perogative to change her mind.

CM, you are so cute!! Rolling Laughter

MIMIVAN is cute !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chen

Sat, Aug 04 2007, 8:15 pm

I don't understand why you ladies are so surprised. As has already been said, people have their temptations and their struggles, no one is perfect, and everyone messes up in one way or another.

Don't you read the tanach? It's got it all--idolatry, murder, giluy aroyos--and by some pretty big pillars of society, too. It just doesn't sound so bad to us b/c the language is elegant,refined, and foreign. If people couldn't be perfect in the Age of Prophecy, why do we expect perfection 2-1/2 millenia after prophecy ceased?

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