What are the sources and reasons for being shomer negiah??

shalhevet ↓

Sat, Jun 16 2007, 7:41 pm

There is a Torah prohibition of:

וְאֶל-אִשָּׁה, בְּנִדַּת טֻמְאָתָהּ--לֹא תִקְרַב, לְגַלּוֹת עֶרְוָתָהּ.
(Vayikra 18:19)

And you shouldn't come near to a woman who is nidda, to have relations. From the words 'come near' Chazal learnt that all kinds of closeness is forbidden. A nidda is any girl/woman who has ever seen blood and hasn't counted 7 nki'im and gone to the mikva.

Anyone forbidden to a man is also forbidden to touch eg another man's wife.

Motek ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 10:50 am

Quote:

mummyof6 wrote:
Can people please stop using the term 'shomer negia'! It makes it sound like there are two classes of Jews - those who are 'shomer negia' and are forbidden to touch someone of the opposite gender, and those who are not 'shomer negia' and are "allowed" to. It makes people feel that 'well, I'm not shomer negia, so that's fine' Every Jew is obligated in these laws.

Hey, is anyone out there 'shomer Yom Kippur' or 'not shomer Yom Kippur'?

yup
as I posted before:

there is no such thing as "shomer negia" in sefarim or halacha

just like no "shomer tefillin"
"shomer tefilla"
"shomer tzitzis"
"shomer hadlakas neiros"
"shomer emes"
"shomer achilas matza"
"shomer asher yotzar"

etc.

Ruchel ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 11:00 am

The phrase is also new in France (like Mo Wink

). So many people are shomer negia without knowing the word for it, especially among the older.
The problem here is that people don't agree on the meaning. Does it mean you don't even shake hands? or you don't touch out of business? or you touch only casually? or only your fiancee and you don't go very far? or..... what?
So you often hear "I'm rather/completely/quite/a bit shomer(et) negia".

Mitzvahmom

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 11:05 am

It's kind of sad/funny... One guy called me once, through my masphia..

First question, are you shomer negiah... me yes

Oh, well I am not he said..

I said, ok...and we did not meet...lol

Evidently...there is a slew of men that will only date women that are not shomer negiah..

red sea

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 1:15 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I've heard about it, it's been translated in French. My friend bought it and she said she liked it, but she told me it's geared towards BT and might be "non relevant" for others. Any info on that?

I thought it was good anyway & relevent

batya_d ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 1:25 pm

Motek wrote:

Quote:

I thought it was you who had posted about this before on another thread.

So what can we call this concept of Shomer Negiah? A practice/custom that has become widespread?

↑ batya_d

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 1:27 pm

Ruchel wrote:

So you often hear "I'm rather/completely/quite/a bit shomer(et) negia".

I've never heard that here, people are either Shomer Negia or not (although I have heard of some who will shake hands for business when absolutely necessary)

By that terminology, someone who did everything but go "all the way" with her chosson could say she was somewhat Shomer Negiah.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 1:54 pm

batya_d wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

So you often hear "I'm rather/completely/quite/a bit shomer(et) negia".

I suppose some say it, although maybe "not really sn" would be what is said if they did everything but relations.
Generally hand shaking is not counted. Most people I know (including charedim) will shake hands if the person extends his/her hand, not to offend.

I wonder if the standards are not more lax here. I remember when I got engaged, a very old rav happened to be in the shul so we invited him. When he saw it was a frum Ashkenazic engagement he was so emotioned he had tears in his eyes (!) and held my hand. I was very surprised.

In the same kind, on my wedding day I had invited my chassidic cousin (distant as he was able to be witness) and of course when I saw him with his chassidic levush I just nodded to him. But HE extended his hand and shaked hands for a loooong time while talking to me, like 1 minute. But he was also extremely emotional that I was getting married.
I'll see him in a few weeks and I doubt he'll shake hands. I will report Smile

chavamom ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 3:08 pm

Mitzvahmom wrote:

This is what I keep hearing from divorced friends or older singles. And the phenomena is not confined to the MO world either shock

↑ chavamom ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 3:11 pm

Motek wrote:

Quote:

I'm not sure that the problem is one of language. But I agree with the idea that somehow we are conveying the idea that this is a "chumra" that some "frummies" keep. I hate to tell you how old I was before I found out that this was not a whacked out chumra....

ok, I'll spill it. I was in seminary. I actually went back to some of my teachers when I got back in the states and said "why aren't you telling people this? Making it clear?" and they told me they were afraid that people would get turned off or weren't ready to hear such a thing Rolling Eyes

↑ chavamom ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 3:12 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I've heard about it, it's been translated in French. My friend bought it and she said she liked it, but she told me it's geared towards BT and might be "non relevant" for others. Any info on that?

I actually am friendly with the author (our husbands are friends) and the book was written with MO kids in mind, not BT's.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Sun, Jun 17 2007, 3:18 pm

chavamom wrote:

Mitzvahmom wrote:

This is what I keep hearing from divorced friends or older singles. And the phenomena is not confined to the MO world either shock

But what do they mean? to what point are they non sn?
thanks for the info chava