why can't we ask | Imamother

greenfire ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 3:42 pm

my dd and her class with having a heated discussion about moshiach ... and she asked who said that it is not a woman ... anyway forget that part ... her teacher answered her ... "if you don't believe in what the chachomim say ... you might as well jump off the empire state building" shock

the horror

# 1 - kids issues and questions need to be addressed

#2 - an incident actually like that happened recently

#3 - the teacher knows my family and knows my other dd jumped out a window

so my question of the moment ... why can't we ask questions about haskafa and actually feel like it is important enough to be addressed ... kids are turning away from yiddishkeit these days...

what would you do if this happened to your kid? how would you react

Mrs. Mommy ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 3:49 pm

Actually - when I was in 11th grade, I asked a question, something about olam habah, and my teacher told me - if you can ask such a question, you do not deserve to be here. You may as well leave. (Except that she didn't say it so nicely...) And mind you - I was in a Bais Yaakov type school and I always had trouble with them because I wasn't their cookie cutter idea of what a BY girl should be. And then this teacher said that to me - I was sooo turned off. I didn't even want to be religious anymore...

↑ amother ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 4:01 pm

I think it's terrible that we can't ask. But on the other hand, to introduce questions that most kids don't have is not fair to the rest of the class. Perhaps she should have asked them privately. That being said, that teacher has no place in a classroom. She reacted poorly on so many levels. I have an acquaintance who teaches in a high school and she is so clueless and had no sensitivity to family issues and hashgafa issues. It wouldn't even surprise me if she was the teacher here, although from my experiences, teachers like this are not an anomaly. Sorry for the disjointed post.

BrachaVHatzlocha

Thu, May 03 2007, 4:04 pm

a 21 yr old just told me the other day how many girls in her school became irreligious because they were rediculed if they had questions.
that is terrible. we don't have blind faith...we're ALLOWED to ask. If the teacher doesn't like the question or doesn' tknow the answer, she should tell the student they'll discuss it later.

yoyosma ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 4:09 pm

When I was in high school someone in our community passed away under horrible circumstances and I was very upset by it.
The topic of death came up in one class and I asked my teacher why would Hashem do something like that. She told me that questioning Hashem is like Apikorsus and I have problems with my Emuna, how dare I ask blah blah blah. I was very upset by her answer but also didnt put much stock in her words.
This was in a Beis Yaakov and she was one of those fire and brimstone types which is why I didnt care for her opnion.

Last edited by yoyosma on Thu, May 03 2007, 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

red sea ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 4:17 pm

That kind of thing happened in my class in hs too, friend asked a ? seriously and got the whole apikorsus speech. I think these teachers are very much partially responsible for the teen rebelloin & desperatism.

southernbubby ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 4:33 pm

I agree with telling kids to ask controversial questions privately, to someone who is really willing to answer them rather than in class where the teacher has to deal with it. Unfortunately, the teacher may only be prepared to present the material that she is assigned to teach and not to digress to other topics. Telling kids to jump off of buildings is very unprofessional but putting the teacher on the defensive will not help your daughter. Telling the principal that you find that example offensive might lead her to speak to the teacher about being more sensitive.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 4:54 pm

It comes from the Latin or English word "Epicurian". An epicurian eats because he is a foodie and is eating entirely for pleasure. An apikoris lives for pleasure in this world and is not concerned with what it causes spiritually. This was explained yesterday at a shiur given by Rabbi Nesanel Lauer, former principal of BY of Detroit.

cassandra

Thu, May 03 2007, 5:02 pm

greenfire wrote:

so my question of the moment ... why can't we ask questions about haskafa and actually feel like it is important enough to be addressed ... kids are turning away from yiddishkeit these days...

Because then they would be modern orthodox.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 5:05 pm

Rabbi Lauer explained that apikoris does not have it's root in Hebrew, a root oriented language. It is a word that was incorporated into Hebrew from another language. Some words in Hebrew are borrowed from English such as the animal "giraffa". I don't think there even is a Hebrew word for penguin.

Nomad

Thu, May 03 2007, 5:09 pm

ugh - some people are just crazy

and just to get things straight:
blind faith is a major christian concept
jews on the other hand LOVE questions! thats how we ended up with gemara, and mishnaya, and all the commentary on the torah...

HindaRochel ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 6:11 pm

Your daughter had a question. Either she was serious or she was trying to rebel. Whichever case it was the teacher, being the adult, should have acted like an responsible adult. This is the person who is suppose to be shaping young minds, not squashing questions and has'vashalom causing them injury.

I would complain to the principle.

She deserved an answer, even if it was "come on (your daughter's name) I know you know the answer to that one. " and if she answered she really didn't, or whatever, he should have explained the issue to her. Best answer would have been a real answer.

btw there are those who say, even among the Orthodox that the Moshiach can be a woman...I doubt it, but anyway, the question deserved to be answered not spat at.

I'd complain to the principle.

BTW, whoever said the girl should have asked in private, no, if the teacher felt it was better dealt with privately the teacher should have said "It is a good question but I think the answer is best dealt with outside class. Come to me later and I'll explain in detail the answer...and anyone else who is unclear about the answer can join us."

farmom

Thu, May 03 2007, 6:13 pm

You might tell your daughter that some people are not comfortable with questions, but it's fine, and even GOOD to ask them. So if she ever has questions that she feels don't get satisfactory answers, she should come to you with them. Of course, it's more work for you - cuz if you don't know the answer, you'd have to research it , or refer her to someone who does. But the benefit would be amazing.

↑ southernbubby ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 6:33 pm

Most high school students are able to understand that some questions are more appropriate in some settings than in others. The teacher may have understood a question about women being Moshiach as inflamatory rather than an actual question. Also, I have seen many problems over the years when the hashkafa of the school and of the family clash. While GF might feel good that her dd questions the possibility of a female Moshiach, she is obviously in a school where the staff would not expect that type of discussion.
That being said, every teen needs someone who will answer genuine questions. Unfortunately, this is often not the teacher.

↑ greenfire ↓

Thu, May 03 2007, 6:53 pm

The whole class was having a discussion ... not just my daugher - whatever the case may be people have been arguing haskafa presumably for 5767 years. While I may be fed up of the inability to address these issues ... it is unheard of for a teacher to tell any child to jump off the empire state building - or any other building for that matter!!! That her life is not worthwhile ... this is ridiculous we are taught that the whole world is made for just me!!! and on top of it ... as I said with the fact of people's suicide issues including that of a recent tragedy specifically having to do with esb ... as well as the unfortunate circumstance where another of my dd jumped out a window this specific person - let alone teacher who is aware - not presumed aware - should not be allowed to talk like this to any child of any age or background ... let alone mine!!!