Will Humans want to alter their bodies to become 4 legged?

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 2:56 pm

amother wrote:

"I will never ridicule a down syndrome but would make fun of people who applaud their accomplishments and think that they are cute."

Exactly. Because comparing a darling child with Down's syndrome to a transgender is a really normal comparison. I mean, I would totally equate the two. I've never heard of two kinds of people more alike. You my dear, are the exact proof of how the world has gone insane. There, I've said it.

↑ saw50st8 ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 3:02 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I agree with black sheep. She has the right to think it is perverted to change your body for reasons that are not medically necessary. However she does not have the right to tell someone who is transgender that they are perverted. Do you see the difference?

I do think it's interesting that people who alter the bodies of newborn babies without thinking twice (Bris milah with no medical need) will call others who alter their bodies by choice depraved.

It's also interesting that the anti-circumcision groups use a lot of the rhetoric posted here against transgenders.

↑ Scrabble123 ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 3:04 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

I think that mommy2b2c definitely takes issue with the media's ostentatious reporting of transgender individuals. I agree with that. It cheapens the struggle, it ignores many of the factors at play and is often disgraceful reporting. That being said, there are definitely trans-gender individuals who are also unhappy with the media's portrayal of trans-gender individuals and their lives.

I'm not sure why you'd make fun of someone who is proud of their child who may have been born lacking a gene that allows the SRY to develop and always felt girly. Why would you ridicule that parent because they are happy that their child did what he felt was appropriate to be a healthier, happier individual? Why would you do that even if you think it is inappropriate?

Down Syndrome is a chromosome disorder and its possible some biological issues with trandsgender individuals are linked to a chromosome. Would it have made a difference if amother said that about a Schizophrenic or a gay man? What about something with a different religion, skin color, or mental and psychological capacity? What about someone with depression? It's not appropriate to ridicule anyone who is suffering from a biological or psychological condition (which I know you said you are not doing), but it's not appropriate to ridicule those who support them. I'm kind of confused as to what you're saying, but I think it's more that you are ridiculing the media attitude of everything and anything is acceptable and amazing and good.

gp2.0 wrote:

And she has a responsibility to back up her opinion with what she perceives to be applicable psychological, social, religious, academic, biological facts that express what she believes. That gives the opinion weight and even when someone may disagree, value.

↑ mommy3b2c ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 3:41 pm

Scrabble123 wrote:

You actually understood me pretty well, scrabble. The medias portrayal of how it's all wonderful, is just sickening. Why would they glorify mental illness? Do the glorify people with shizOphrenia who where foil on their heads? We can pity them. Think of ways to help them. Try to understand them. But to celebrate them, and call me a bigot if I don't do the same, is just twisted.

↑ MagentaYenta ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 4:55 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

One of the issues is Caitlyn isn't the average m2f transgender person. She is white and wealthy and was already a public persona and publicity is how earns her living. For most it is a painstaking process for an individual to transition and it often takes a year or two. Without surgery this process still takes place with the guidance of their mental health provider and their medical provider. The press coverage is what Caitlyn needs for her revenue stream. For the average person to transition it may mean moving to a state where trans people are protected through anti discrimination laws, changing employment and finding a tolerant workplace. LaVerne Cox has been publicly speaking on these issues for quite some time and more so since Caitlyns recent Vanity Fair reveal.

↑ marina ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 5:25 pm

amother wrote:

I wouldnt even care if there was a man in the bathroom I mean there are stalls for a reason who cares who is in the stall next to you anon b/c im scared ull judge me.

I'll repeat what amother said under my own name. I could not possibly care less about the gender of the person in the stall or shower next to me. I would not worry at all about a mixed bathroom or even shower room. It's just as likely for a rude woman to peek over the stall to watch me pee as a rude man. And both of them get a kick in the face.

There's really no reason to imagine that transgender people are just faking it and really trying to find an inventive way out to catch women in the bathroom and then rape them.

↑ marina ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 5:31 pm

mommy2b2c wrote:

Sickening? Really? It makes you ill?

You know what's sickening? Children being sold into s-xual slavery. Boko Haram. ISIS. Beheadings. Honor killings. Women who live in place where they risk rape just by venturing to get wood for their fires. Children dying from starvation and malaria.

Positive media portrayal of a behavior you find distasteful is not sickening- at most it could be mildly annoying. Get some perspective.

↑ MagentaYenta ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 5:32 pm

Raisin wrote:

I'm not really comfortable showering naked in front of anyone. When I am in a public changing room I try and change as discreetly as possible. In any case, (regular) women could be lesbians or bisexual so they could easily be looking at you in a s-xual way. (if that is your concern) And this is even more so with mens changing rooms etc and men in general are much freer walking around naked from what I understand.

I assure you bisexual women are only interested in getting in and out of locker rooms and group showers as quickly as possible, just like you. Please don't encourage the cexual stereotype that all non hetero people are are on the cexual prowl in locker rooms or eyeballing you. It's not fair and inaccurate.

FWIW I use public pools and a local gym and I haven't seen open showers in womens locker rooms in decades. Privacy stalls for showering and changing are pretty much the norm. Even back in prehistoric times when I was in college (public) we had private shower stalls. And those stalls are there for more reasons than just modesty.

↑ marina ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 5:37 pm

black sheep wrote:

you know, I don't think it is about rights, or live and let live, or how it affects people's lives. I think the issue is about twisting your minds to the point where one cannot tell the difference between right and wrong anymore. where society bullies people into agreeing that a man altering his body and dressing like a woman is "beautiful and brave" instead of calling perversion and depravity when you see it. the danger here, and the reason I am not ignoring this issue, is that it has become acceptable only to express opinions supporting transgenders, and totally unacceptable to express opinions against transgenderism. if you still think changing your gender is impossible and mutilating your body and wearing a wig and makeup to pretend to be a woman is mental illness or perversion, then you are intolerant and unsympathetic. if you talk about how beautiful and brave it is for a man to try and look like a woman, then you are embraced for your open thinking and sympathetic views. THIS is the issue, not the bathrooms or the rights or even the transgenders themselves, but the current culture that doesn't allow for any differences of opinion, and because of that, doesn't allow people to differentiate between right and wrong, between normalcy and mental illness, between beauty and perversion.

What does this have to do with right and wrong? Say I felt bad about my body and redid my boobs, nose, tush, thighs, and got some lovely earrings and a belly ring to go with it. Then I hated my hair and got a wig. Would that be "wrong" or perverted? I'm changing my body, you could easily argue that I'm mutilating it, etc. and pretending to be someone else, etc.

↑ youngishbear ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 6:17 pm

Barbara wrote:

How would you know that you met a transgendered person in the restroom?

I'm not attacking, I'm genuinely curious. You're in a stall. You don't see anyone else's equipment. (And if they had surgery, they would have the same equipment that you do.)

That's Laverne Cox. She's a transgendered actress. Would you really freak out if she walked into the ladies' room behind you?

Moreover, why would your safety be at risk because you shared a bathroom with a transgendered person? Do you think that a transgendered person is likely to rape or otherwise molest you, simply because she is transgendered?

Actually, I prefer transgendered people should use the bathroom of the gender that they look like. The person whose picture you posted appears female. I don't care what's under those clothes.

I was reacting to the picture of the person who looks like a man coming out of women's bathroom, that that would make most people I know very uncomfortable.

That's all well and good for public restrooms, where no one requires a birth certificate for entry into a particular restroom. I'm sure the problem is a lot more complicated in a place like a school where a kid was known as a boy his whole life, and is now transitioning, where should s/he go?

It reminds me of the scene in Mrs. Doubtfire. It is simply confusing. That's why I said, I wonder what sort of solution there could be - until unisex bathrooms become required.

↑ mommy3b2c

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 6:47 pm

marina wrote:

The sickeningly sweetness of it all makes me nauseous. That doesn't mean there aren't things in the world that are way worse.

↑ Barbara ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 7:32 pm

youngishbear wrote:

I think the point of the photo was that no matter what gender he was assigned at birth, he now looks and lives as a man, so he should be using the men's room.

↑ youngishbear ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 7:36 pm

Barbara wrote:

I think the point of the photo was that no matter what gender he was assigned at birth, he now looks and lives as a man, so he should be using the men's room.

And I agreed.

As long as someone appears like a certain gender, and it won't be exposed otherwise, I don't see why not.

In any case, it's impossible to enforce any other way.

Last edited by youngishbear on Thu, Jun 04 2015, 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 7:42 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

I do think it's interesting that people who alter the bodies of newborn babies without thinking twice (Bris milah with no medical need) will call others who alter their bodies by choice depraved.

Really??? Leave aside how the world thinks but what WE should think. (This is the same philosophy as that first Rashi in the chumash: knowing that Hashem gave us E"Y is not necessarily going to change everyone else's mind but we will KNOW it. It will be imprinted on our neshamos, that's how clearly we'll know it.) We're talking about a mitzvah Hashem gave us. Don't see it through the eyes of the anti circ people. Or do if you need to take them on so you have to get into their heads. We here shouldn't be doing that.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Jun 04 2015, 7:44 pm

marina wrote:

That's one spacious stall you're in.