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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
amother
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 Sun, Mar 29 2015, 12:49 pm
| Barbara wrote: | I don't believe you. We only have your word. Please present us with the names of other people who can testify that neither you nor your husband have ever molested anyone. These need to be people who have watched you 24/7 since you were 11 years old or so, or they are not believable.
Why should we believe you about anything? |
Don't believe me. We still shouldn't vilify him or anyone based on one persons word alone.
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Barbara
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 1:01 pm
| amother wrote: | | Don't believe me. We still shouldn't vilify him or anyone based on one persons word alone. |
Which means that he gets away with molesting little girls forever. Because each one is silenced by people like you who say, "oh, he's a MAN and he's a RABBI, so why should we believe you, little girl."
You sicken me.
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Raisin
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 2:11 pm
| Jeanette wrote: | | Crownheights.info or collive.com or jcw are not "chabad". They may be run by people who are chabad or grew up chabad or affiliate with chabad but they're still private individuals. Learn to distinguish the two. |
in that case, nor is the molester chabad or the unhelpful rabbi chabad...they are individuals who happened to affiliate with chabad. The Rebbe would certainly not want any of his chassidim, let alone shluchim, molesting teenage girls. And from what I understand it was a panel of FOUR Rabbis, only one of whom was chabad, who mishandeled this whole case.
I would certainly consider collive a chabad website even if I often disagree with stuff that it posts, as do most people. (they like posting controversial things but they are equal opportunity controversial...as long as enough people disagree with a post they are good to go)
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kadosh
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 2:16 pm
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I am inspired by her. I am happy that she finally had the courage to open up and stand up for herself.
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Barbara
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 3:19 pm
| Jeanette wrote: | | Crownheights.info or collive.com or jcw are not "chabad". They may be run by people who are chabad or grew up chabad or affiliate with chabad but they're still private individuals. Learn to distinguish the two. |
I'm sorry I upset you by saying something nice about Chabad. Shall I take it back?
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Jeanette
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 3:22 pm
| Raisin wrote: | in that case, nor is the molester chabad or the unhelpful rabbi chabad...they are individuals who happened to affiliate with chabad. The Rebbe would certainly not want any of his chassidim, let alone shluchim, molesting teenage girls. And from what I understand it was a panel of FOUR Rabbis, only one of whom was chabad, who mishandeled this whole case.
I would certainly consider collive a chabad website even if I often disagree with stuff that it posts, as do most people. (they like posting controversial things but they are equal opportunity controversial...as long as enough people disagree with a post they are good to go) |
Well I guess we disagree then.
COL may be run by people who are Chabad but it is not a Chabad organization, nor does it claim to be.
If I own a shoe store that does not make it a Chabad-run shoe store.
The molestor was employed by a Chabad organization during the time when the alleged molestation took place. I do not know if the organization he was later transferred to is officially Chabad or not. I also do not know if the unhelpful rabbi was acting in an official capacity as a Chabad representative. If a Chabad rabbi works for a city beis din, for example, then he represents the city beis din, not Chabad the organization.
If someone is working for a Chabad organization and Chabad fails to do anything about it (such as relieve him from his duties and make sure that he is never in a position to be around children) then Chabad is responsible. If someone is not working for Chabad then I don't see how Chabad is responsible for what they do or don't do.
Unless you think that none of this makes any difference and anything that shmerel berel does is attributable to "Chabad" as long as he has a Chabad grandparent or something.
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Jeanette
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 3:24 pm
| Barbara wrote: | | I'm sorry I upset you by saying something nice about Chabad. Shall I take it back? |
You posted something factually incorrect.
Whether it reflects positively or negatively on Chabad is beside the point.
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GetReal
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 3:46 pm
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COL and CH.info are news sites run by individual Lubavitchers, as opposed to official Chabad sites. Official sites are chabad.org and lubavitch.com.
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vintagebknyc
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 4:00 pm
| amother wrote: | Hugs for Sima and I admire her Strenth to come forward with her story.
As a woman who was melestred as a child I had some veiws on this issue like many ppl commented here. These guys r bad and we need to publicize this and destroy their life..... But now as a wife of a relations addict I understand things a bit better. It's a desease, they r not bad ppl but sick ppl. YES we need to protect out children!
Another point is : some girls that came out with their story In my community R good and dirty. They claim melestered/rape, but the truth is : they asked for it...... It doesn't give the adult a freeway bec they should have know that u don't start up with a minor but... These girls coming fwr r not always so truthful .
Ps. No healing comes about from publisizing a story besides for hate. If u want to heal, u work throught it, if u want revenge, u poblisize it. That is my experience! |
here's some advice: find a therapist. your post is so disgusting and offensive I can't even.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 4:29 pm
| vintagebknyc wrote: | | here's some advice: find a therapist. your post is so disgusting and offensive I can't even. |
To all the ppl that think my post is offensive. I have the right to my own opinion, this is my option based on my experience and knowledge . And yes, I have a therapist and no, no one is allowed to abuse anyone no matter what.
If you don't like my option, we can agree to disagree. Being nasty and calling names puts u into a negative position.
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Barbara
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 7:04 pm
| amother wrote: | To all the ppl that think my post is offensive. I have the right to my own opinion, this is my option based on my experience and knowledge . And yes, I have a therapist and no, no one is allowed to abuse anyone no matter what.
If you don't like my option, we can agree to disagree. Being nasty and calling names puts u into a negative position. |
Wrong. You can have an opinion on whether shells look good under dresses. On whether Obama is a good president, or Netanyahu a good prime minister. On gebrokts and on Monsey.
But you can't have an opinion on facts. On whether the moon revolves around the earth, or the ocean is salty. Or on whether a child ever "asks" to be raped.
No one is entitled to refer to someone else's child as "good and dirty." No one is entitled to say that someone else's child was "asking" to be molested or raped. That's not an "opinion." It's a sick and aberrational way of thinking. It is outside the bounds of normal thought. It is disgusting.
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pause
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 7:17 pm
| Barbara wrote: | | You can have an opinion on whether shells look good under dresses. On whether Obama is a good president, or Netanyahu a good prime minister. On gebrokts and on Monsey. |
 We should have a spinoff poll on these matters.
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LittleDucky
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 8:41 pm
| amother wrote: | To all the ppl that think my post is offensive. I have the right to my own opinion, this is my option based on my experience and knowledge . And yes, I have a therapist and no, no one is allowed to abuse anyone no matter what.
If you don't like my option, we can agree to disagree. Being nasty and calling names puts u into a negative position. |
But you can call people names and be nasty? (Especially under amother, but that's another issue). I think your "position" is therefore inherently "negative".
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amother
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 8:58 pm
I applaud sima for coming out.
I don't think she is lying however anyone that says ppl don't make up molest/rape stories is misinformed.
Its rare, but it happens, usually by individuals of unstable capacities, especially those with severe lying disorders and other anxieties.
Most cases however I would venture to say are brave souls coming out to help others in similar painful situations.
But imagine for a second, that you are teaching a class of girls, and you are a loving teacher that often gives girls one on one time to help them but some are not mentally stable and one or 2 actually hate you and tell you so to your face and think that you "pick" on them. True story so far, I'm sure multiplied by many teachers, not just the one I'm thinking of.
Now the said teacher I'm thinking of was wrongly accused of a wrongdoing, not s#xual related. And the student did a great job getting other friends and parents and even Hanhala to believe that this teacher did the wrong. Luckily after the teacher was berated and accused and appealed innocence the Hanhala did its research and found that the student actually lied, and it wasn't the first time either.
Now replace this story with being accused of molestation....
The teacher wouldn't stand a chance. The victim never lies... Etc.
I say this knowing many of u will be angered or hurt but stepping back this needs to be understood as well.
That said, I cannot tell you how much fear I have for my children's protection. How when I hear these horrible stories I don't want to let my kids leave the house. Obviously I have to let them live life and train them to be confidant and never allow anyone near them inappropriately, but I fear the beasts out there. And I am pro true victims opening the truth to the world. No sweeping under the rug. Its a really hard balance. Who is real? Who is lying with an agenda? Who is crying in shame? Who is laughing to the bank? Its all so unsettling.
I'm going to say another thing that may anger some of you.
Yes, no person EVER has a right to touch ANYONE inappropriately especially children. They mostly are innocent.
Let me tell you though, tht I taught 12 year old girls that would be caught posing in lingerie-like gear and posting on fb and sending around... They are not all so innocent. They are badly influenced by society and not wise enough to realize the ramifications of their actions but yes when they get down and dirty it plays with minds of the male gender and nobody can fight science.
Yosef haTzaddik couldn't fight it by eishes potiphar and the medrash says he tried so hard to hold back it went thru his fingernails into the ground. Enough blindfolded atheism about the way guys are created... If u have been in bed with a hub especially as a kallah, u know some of the nature of the beast.
They get turned on. By females. Especially ones that dress in a hot way and flick their hair in their face. Now, say this happens, I don't care if the guy is a rabbi a priest or a pizza shop owner, they have a responsibility to keep themselves in check and not act on this.
Some men are ill, and when they get turned on they do not know how to control themselves and they victimize and should be locked away or never allowed alone with ppl.
But yes it can happen. Clerical position does not mean a man isn't a man and does not mean the man is free from illness.
Yes it can happen to someone who has done absolutely nothing to turn the man on.
But yes, if a girl or women is flirty, or flashy, around such a man, they are adding fuel to the fire. It doesn't mean it was their fault they became a victim, though there is a possibility had they behaved differently there may be a dif ending. Though nothing can be guaranteed.
A sick person will be sick regardless.
I'm not saying any of u victims are to blame. Absolutely not. What I am saying is that flashiness and flirtiness definitely doesn't help matters and a guy is a guy whether u admit it or not. Hopefully most guys are well enough not to act on their reactions.
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black sheep
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 9:20 pm
Aubergine Amother, you sound mentally ill. No offense of course, this is only my personal opinion, but let me explain why I think so.
you talk in circles. let me paraphrase your post: "it isn't her fault, maybe it is, it might be the way she dresses... he should control himself, he cannot control himself, yosef couldn't control himself, oh wait yes he did... children are innocent, no they aren't innocent, some of them post pictures in lingerie..."
you claim to be afraid for your children's safety. why are you so afraid? and at the same time, you think children make these things up. you worry that a teacher can be wrongly accused by non-innocent children, and yet you also fear for your children's safety.
something doesn't add up in your thought process. I seriously suggest therapy.
in either case, just to address one point, no one disagrees that someone might be wrongly accused. no one thinks that no child ever lied and made up a story. but there are professionals, people who are trained and experienced in this, who can determine if a child/teen/adult is lying. before any accused molester is ever convicted, the victims are questioned by these professionals. so you don't have to worry so much over someone being wrongly accused. justice will set the record straight.
oh and one more point, the most important from your post: "a guy is a guy" does not mean normal men molest children! seriously, hello! normal men do not s-xually abuse children. and even if you are talking about adult women, normal men do not attack women just because of the way they are dressed.
seriously, please, get help.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 9:28 pm
| black sheep wrote: | Aubergine Amother, you sound mentally ill. No offense of course, this is only my personal opinion, but let me explain why I think so.
you talk in circles. let me paraphrase your post: "it isn't her fault, maybe it is, it might be the way she dresses... he should control himself, he cannot control himself, yosef couldn't control himself, oh wait yes he did... children are innocent, no they aren't innocent, some of them post pictures in lingerie..."
you claim to be afraid for your children's safety. why are you so afraid? and at the same time, you think children make these things up. you worry that a teacher can be wrongly accused by non-innocent children, and yet you also fear for your children's safety.
something doesn't add up in your thought process. I seriously suggest therapy.
in either case, just to address one point, no one disagrees that someone might be wrongly accused. no one thinks that no child ever lied and made up a story. but there are professionals, people who are trained and experienced in this, who can determine if a child/teen/adult is lying. before any accused molester is ever convicted, the victims are questioned by these professionals. so you don't have to worry so much over someone being wrongly accused. justice will set the record straight.
oh and one more point, the most important from your post: "a guy is a guy" does not mean normal men molest children! seriously, hello! normal men do not s-xually abuse children. and even if you are talking about adult women, normal men do not attack women just because of the way they are dressed.
seriously, please, get help. |
If she is a woman, that is.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 9:29 pm
Just because a young teen is experimenting with her s-xuality and dressing in a way that goes against community tznius standards doesn't mean an adult may "help her discover her s-xuality"!!! 
The only DLKZ I can think of for her post is that perhaps she's trying to say that often molestors will zero in on kids who they believe will make cooperative victims, or less likely to be believed if they do disclose etc. A rebellious teen is more likely to be blamed or shut down, precisely what the poster is doing!
Please let's not make it even easier for these evil predators to get away with it.
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amother
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 9:39 pm
It seems you did not read what I wrote.
Just skimmed and it took what you wanted to see and made judgments.
My points were clearly that no man EVER has a right to do this. Yes it is sick to do this. To a child especially. Enough said.
I made other points that I applaud victims for speaking out.
Yes, I think victims should speak out and should for the most part be believed. Another clear point.
As a side point - mostly not the case- but it happens- sometimes there are false accusations. And its not always a matter of being convicted. Sometimes it doesn't get to the point of professionals and court cases before a false accusation can harm someone.
And another side point.
That ppl push aside the "turn on" factor of a male (which in no way gives them an OK to hurt anyone ever!) But saying a guy doesn't get turned on is like saying there is no sky.
It just bothers me that women here so blatantly pretend that our "Womanliness" doesn't affect guys in the least bit and they can do whatever they please and point fingers., um hello, how would we have kids otherwise?
Almost all healthy males will not do anything with this. Not healthy males it adds fuel to fire.
I repeat. This does not make it OK. This does not say that a victim is only that because her indecency. But it does take a tiny drop of innocence out of the victim if she was indecent. Again... Not OK and never allowed to happen even so. Just a point.
Take it or leave it.
Not sure why that renders me a mental case but feel free to have ur opinions and be blessed. I forgive you for judging me.
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black sheep
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Sun, Mar 29 2015, 9:44 pm
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and do you think the boys who are molested also dressed too provocatively?
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