Cut Me Loose - By Leah Vincent. Anyone read it? Thoughts?

↑ Clarissa ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:45 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

Care to elaborate?

I don’t even know where to start. I’ll throw out a few things.

She talks about her struggles and deprivation and most of what she describes I and every other young independent woman I know went through. The crummy first apartment. The living on pb&j. The awkwardness around boys and men (and I wasn’t even raised Orthodox). The entry level crappy job. Saving up for one precious item of clothing. That’s called being young and not rich, young and inexperienced, and young and starting out. I’m from a different generation and most of us pretty much started out like that. Also plenty of my friends came from very dysfunctional and disadvantaged backgrounds and managed to achieve a lot, so it is done.

She has extremely unhealthy fixations on, and relationships with, boys and men and of course blames her background. What I’m seeing is someone with emotional issues, not someone whose emotional growth was stunted by a yeshivish background. And she came from a pretty progressive community.

I could go on. Some really awful behavior that I won’t go into. Some statements made since the publication that I won’t go into. I can give her props for having the guts to share this stuff but mostly I wanted to take a hot shower and forget I read it. Luckily a friend let me borrow the book so I didn’t pay for it.

Last edited by Clarissa on Sun, Nov 30 2014, 10:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ BlueRose52 ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:51 pm

Clarissa wrote:

She talks about her struggles and deprivation and most of what she describes I and every other young independent woman I know went through. The crummy first apartment. The living on pb&j. The awkwardness around boys and men (and I wasn’t even raised Orthodox). The entry level crappy job. Saving up for one precious item of clothing. That’s called being young and not rich, young and inexperienced, and young and starting out. I’m from a different generation and most of us pretty much started out like that. Also plenty of my friends came from very dysfunctional and disadvantaged backgrounds and managed to achieve a lot, so it is done.

Totally agree with this. I expressed a similar sentiment in an earlier comment here.

Clarissa wrote:

She has extremely unhealthy fixations on, and relationships with, boys and men and of course blames her background.

While I agree that her male relationships are terribly dysfunctional, I didn't see where she blames her background for it. What are you referring to?

↑ Clarissa ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 8:55 pm

Great post earlier, BlueRose52.

She does some really unpleasant things to men. Obsessively messages a young boy when she’s young, which sounds like borderline stalking. Harmless maybe, but she never accepts that his family might find it creepy. Marries someone so he can get a green card (her offer) and abandons him, which could have been really bad for him. Has an affair with a married man and when his wife of 30+ years is angry and broken-hearted, makes herself out to be the victim. Throughout the book she seems to make herself the victim because she had a very sheltered background and was “abandoned” by her family. I’m sorry, I know people who were from awful backgrounds and they didn’t do such things or, if they did similar things, would have accepted that their behavior was awful. In her case it’s always sheltered background/bad family.

↑ BlueRose52 ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:04 pm

Clarissa wrote:

She does some really unpleasant things to men. Obsessively messages a young boy when she’s young, which sounds like borderline stalking. Harmless maybe, but she never accepts that his family might find it creepy. Marries someone so he can get a green card (her offer) and abandons him, which could have been really bad for him. Has an affair with a married man and when his wife of 30+ years is angry and broken-hearted, makes herself out to be the victim. Throughout the book she seems to make herself the victim because she had a very sheltered background and was “abandoned” by her family. I’m sorry, I know people who were from awful backgrounds and they didn’t do such things or, if they did similar things, would have accepted that their behavior was awful. In her case it’s always sheltered background/bad family.

I agree that she does all those things, but I didn't see anywhere where she blamed her background. At most, she explained some of her behaviors as a longing to regain the love of a father figure or because she has this deep-seated belief that a woman's role is to support a man. I think that's different than blaming. Blaming is saying "it's their fault". Explaining is saying, "I acted this way because of these factors."

Or is that really the same thing? Scratching Head

↑ BlueRose52 ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:14 pm

When reviewing this thread earlier, I came across the following comment:

amother wrote:

Furthermore, she writes in her book that yeshivishe girls come to New York to be teachers and secretaries but completely ignores the fact that Touro, Stern College, and even Brooklyn College has a ton of yeshivishe girls. Is she ignorant about this fact or is she outright just outright lying about it?

She does indeed acknowledge this. From page 220: "In the years since I had left the community, there had been a move towards allowing some college education. My parents did not support these compromises, but a few single-sеx college programs had sprung up, providing sheltered environments in which religious men and women could get a four-year degree in practical subjects - accounting, computer programming, speech or occupational therapy."

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:27 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

When reviewing this thread earlier, I came across the following comment:
She does indeed acknowledge this. From page 220: "In the years since I had left the community, there had been a move towards allowing some college education. My parents did not support these compromises, but a few single-sеx college programs had sprung up, providing sheltered environments in which religious men and women could get a four-year degree in practical subjects - accounting, computer programming, speech or occupational therapy."

Nope, she is too young. She says in the years since she left.. sorry but Touro and Stern have been around longer and I also know multiple people who are older than her who have attended Brooklyn College as well so this part of her story doesn't add up. It would make sense if she were coming from a chasidishe insular background which is not the case at all.

sourstix

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:29 pm

[quote="marina"]Siblings don't exchange saliva when they kiss. STDs are transmitted through s-ex not through wiping a cut from your sister. Please learn about STDs and how they are transmitted.

And it makes no difference anyway, a mother doesn't do that to her kid. Even if your child has HIV and is on her deathbed coughing up blood, you hug her and hold her in your arms and watch her die.[/quote]u

I know this is old but marina you need to do your work too. if the one who had stds has a cut and the next person has a cut the one with std wiping the other person can transmit std. and obviously thru s*x

↑ BlueRose52 ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:48 pm

amother wrote:

Yes, they've been around for a while, but their acceptance in the community has grown from what it used to be. Not to mention, of course, that different families have different standards of what's acceptable, and that also changes over time. Fifteen years ago, in my yeshivish family, Touro was considered as unacceptable as any other college. You don't have to exactly agree with her assessment, but she isn't lying or making it up, it's a very reasonable description of the situation. And to demonstrate the point, here's an article from 2010 highlighting how the rosh yeshiva of Lakewood strongly criticized a frum magazine for writing a complimentary tribute article about someone. That someone was Dr. Bernard Lander, the founder of Touro College. It's just one of many examples one can point to demonstrating how many in the yeshivish community are strongly against even a place like Touro.

Last edited by BlueRose52 on Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ marina ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 9:51 pm

sourstix wrote:

u

I know this is old but marina you need to do your work too. if the one who had stds has a cut and the next person has a cut the one with std wiping the other person can transmit std. and obviously thru s*x

ok, so how does this work? The mom is afraid of what scenario? Leah shows up with HIV, bleeding all over the dishes. Then her sister, who also has a cut, picks up the dishes to wash them and her cut sucks up the HIV from Leah's blood? Is that it?

I just want to be sure of the exact scenario you'd like me to laugh at.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 10:26 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

15 years ago (and even earlier) there were a bunch of OOT yeshivishe girls renting rooms/apartments in NY, working during the day, and going to school (Touro or Stern) at night. But whatever, Leah is unique and different from the hundreds of girls who were in the exact position as her (but didnt feel the need to have relations with strangers (or at least they didnt/dont advertise it) so congrats to Leah for writing the book and I hope she won't regret it one day.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Nov 30 2014, 11:23 pm

BlueRose52 wrote:

If its true that Leah' s family/community/school did not believe in college, then how did she manage to convince her school to send her transcripts to Brooklyn College-a very secular and coed college?

↑ BlueRose52

Mon, Dec 01 2014, 10:44 am

amother wrote:

I am so not getting drawn into a discussion of these inanities. If anyone has any substantive thoughts on the book itself, I'd love to hear them.

DallasIma

Fri, Jan 30 2015, 11:18 am

I requested the book a few days ago at my local library. It came in yesterday, I picked it up, and I could hardly put it down until I finished it this morning.

My overall thought is, nebbech. She can be a Harvard graduate and have a family (of sorts) but still nebbech. She is fortunate that she didn't end up dead or in jail. I'm sorry to see that a brother of hers also became non-religious.

I feel sorry for her even though she's trying (it seems to me) to lure others off the derech. What this poor girl/woman needed most in her life was acceptance and love, and it looks like she got very little of either from her family, way before she went OTD. Her family may not have realized that you have to train a child according to the child's inclination, as Shlomo HaMelech said. Maybe they were overburdened - or maybe they were just human. Everybody makes mistakes. So did her parents.

It's easy for me to sit here and judge, and if someone writes a book like this, they do have to be prepared for criticism. I could tell stories about things I had to endure in the religious community when I was a single mother and then I went OTD for a while. But what would be the point? Why would someone want to tell a story like this with all the gory details?

This woman is still fairly young. Who knows how her life will unfold further, years from now, when she is older? I find myself wondering if she will ever come back to the derech - not necessarily a Yeshivish way of life, but somehow as a Torah-observant person.

↑ ronbonboo

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 7:11 am

I read a blog about this book that says those who went off the derech will identify, and those who stayed on the path will find problems.
To me she lost her credibility when she cut herself, and attempted suicide and was diagnosed with mental illness and never saught out treatment. They said I think depression and borderline personality disorder and not PTSD. All of her s*xcapades aren't bc she grew up sheltererd. I have many sheltered friends who got married and have very fulfilling marriages. This book is a glorified p*rn*. One story after another how it's her parents fault that she is sleeping around.

This book is a chillul hashem!!!!! This book makes us out to be closed minded people. People who don't love their children. As of were a cult!!!! And keep in mind there's 3 sides to the story; her side, her families, and the truth. The book is poorly written, and could she be fabricating what really happened? Maybe they just didn't want to say to her your not frum so your not welcome we don't want them to see our black sheep, so they gave her an excuse, stds...

As someone who went off the derech and has valid reasons, I also came back. And all my reasons can explain why, but the real reason is me. I lost faith in Gd so I ran. I am owning up to it.

↑ PinkFridge ↓

Thu, Feb 26 2015, 8:24 am

ronbonboo, your personal experience makes your opinion compelling.
But I have to differ about her not getting help. Almost by its nature, people with mental illness may not have the perspective to look outside themselves and do what would be best for them. (As if people without mental illness always make the best choices either, but I digress Tongue Out

) So I don't know if I can judge her for some of the ways she acted out.
But the affair with the married professor? And her lack of ownership in that trainwreck? That was when she finally, totally lost me. And one might argue that she was still not at her healthiest, so not making the best decisions. I think that had she written differently about it, I might have been able to cut her some slack, however minimal. (I do have to say I read it over a year ago so I might not be remembering well. But this was the lasting impression.)