Lakewood - anyone still school-less?

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 2:30 pm

I'm just curious how in fact my post prove's that.

And I'm just as curious how that they do "cessed" for everyone else.

I am sure that you b"h have a perfect life and have never had to come onto them, but I'm curious how an orginazation to help sick children allow's them to "torture" thier own communities?

I'm curious how an org. to help pay for women undergoing infertility is because they are "uncaring".

I am curious how helping women cope postpartum (Yad Rochel) is because they are uncaring?

I am curious how financing tutoring for children who need it is becuase they care nothing for thier own kids ( I personally know of indvidual's who have raised million''s of dollars with the help of prominent Rabbonim for this).

Can you tell me which part is the part that allow's them to "torture" their own ciommunities?

Or is it just that you want to change their communities, thier tradition', and thier way of life and they do not want to change, to your utter frusteration.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 4:06 pm

It could be that our community does lots of chesed and the majority of Lakewood is kindhearted people. That doesn't negate the fact that there are a number people, unfortunately the ones in power that have noones best interest in mind other than their own. What I am going through now attests to that. So many good people have spent time advocating for us and trying to help us. Totally l'shem shamayim. And all it's taking is one guy to counteract that and to give us major grief.

ora_43 ↓

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 6:24 pm

Maya wrote:

Amother, it's beyond me how you justify this rejection of hundreds of families because some organizations cook hot meals for sick people. You want to do Chesed? Start with your own, the ones in your community who need it most.

Why are you giving money to childless couples when you have no intention of accepting their future children into your schools?

Isn't the justification that there just aren't enough schools? Or are you talking about the chassidic community? Are the issues different there, or is it also a question of high population growth?

It sounds to me (as an outsider to this system) like there are two issues: not having enough schools, and using criteria to decide which kids get in instead of just picking names from a hat or something.

Question for people who know Lakewood - I still don't get what the Vaad is. Are they like the city council? What power do they have to set up schools - do they run the city? have funding? none of the above but everybody (in theory) listens to them? If the Vaad isn't the city council, what's the city council doing?

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 9:04 pm

ora_43 wrote:

The Vaad as pertains to school's is a group of askanim that have volunteered/ were pressured by RY and Rabbonim that they work under to try and ensure every child has a place in school.

They are generally successful Roshei Yeshivos, Rabbonim, or Roshei Yeshivah who have a track record of being able to deal with such issues in a machure and successful manner.

In other word's they have to have the ability to negotiate successfully with someone, multi task and have the clout that is needed to get people to listen to them.

Over the year's the have successfully placed thousand's of children into school who would otherwise be without.

They also play an active role in recrruiting qualified individual's to open new school's and provide funding for them.

At one point there was a member of the Vaad who personally guaranteed to fund any qualified individual who agreed to open a school for girl's for the first 3 year's of existence.

And generally this is not an exception, the member's of the Vaad generally open their home's to parlor meeting's and other fundraising event's for school's serve as emcee's and journal chairmen as well as personally contribute huge sum's to the continued functioning of these school's.

Huge sum's mean's million's not thousands of dollar's.

They also co-ordinate with other school's to ensure proper resource''s are given to ensure a school's success (I.e many school's in Lakewood initially opened on the premises of "Big Sister School's).

They generally work under the guidance of the Lakewood Roshei Yeshivah in particular in this aspect of the Klal Rav Malkiel Kotler is most involved. Most famously several year's back he personally forced every Bais Yackov in Lakewood to delay opening until virtually every girl was placed in a school. He also personally convinced several people to agree to open school's in Lakewood.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 9:10 pm

Maya wrote:

I stated the fact's.

The same people who are being accused of "disgusting" attitudes and attempting to "torture" thier communities.

Have done everything in that is possible to help every indiviual they can.
They have contributed million's of thier own.
They have contributed hundred's of hour's of thier time.

With all the bashing going on not a single poster can mention a single concrete idea they should do to alleviate the school situation that they have not already done.

they give money for childless couples to have children, then they give money to open school's for those children, then they give more money to open more school's. Then they give up thier own vacation's and family time to spend day's and night's trying to make certain each child has a school.

So that you can bash them on the internet instead of ever saying Thank You for the fact they have done more to help peopel in one day then you may do in your lifetime.

↑ Maya

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 9:21 pm

amother wrote:

So that you can bash them on the internet instead of ever saying Thank You for the fact they have done more to help peopel in one day then you may do in your lifetime.

My husband spent over $50,000 of his money this past year, plus hours and hours of his own private time, trying to open a girls school in Monsey. One that is going to accept everyone, and not discriminate based on the length of the father's beard, or the size of their bank account. Unfortunately, we couldn't get funding to open this year yet, but we're still working on it. Which means putting in more hours of our own time.

So perhaps you should know all your facts before you accuse others of being all talk and no action.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:03 pm

I personally know the members of the vaad. The vaad is a group of wealthy individuals and they set themselves up to take care of all issues of Lakewood. The vaad is in place for over fifteen years ready. The vaad did not start out to help kids get into schools and they don't want to help they just by default have to do it because they set themselves up to help all issues in Lakewood and this is an issue and that's why they wait for the last minute because they hope that u won't wait for their help and get in another way.
The vaad decides who to vote for in Lakewood. The vaad deals with issues like if someone isossinf they find someone to offer reward money. The vaad is very powerful individuals and people would be shocked if they actually know who the true members are.

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Aug 26 2014, 10:16 pm

I know a few years back one of the vaad members promised a certain school one million dollars if they agreed to open another class and the school did and guess what that vaad member never paid up and of course the school is not going to publicize they information and now they are stuck with another class that they can't afford. And of course there is major talk what a tzadik this vaad member is that he gave the schools met.. You see him speaking at every school dinner but that's all this vaad member is a big show off who just loves publicity. He helps people get into school for his own ego. Yes there are some tzadikim in Lakewood who truly care like rabbi Makiel Kotler. And someof the quieter vaad members behind the scenes truly care and I would never post their names because people don't even know they are on the vaad because They truly care and want to help. The people that the whole town knows their names don't do anything except promote their own name and brag how they help everyone. The true vaad members who cares Lakewood doesn't even know their names.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 12:44 am

Since you were nice enough to explain how the vaad works, let me ask you something else.

My husband and I went to PS and got a phenomenal educ. Especially, my husband we are talking, golf, tennis, lacrosse, olympic pool, weight room, planetarium..

When I first came to Lakewood, everyone would give us the shirt off their back when we were engaged and just married. Once the children were school age it was a different story completely. One son started out in STARS, then Betzalel. Eventually, through the child study team and my friends in Pasaic, I found out about YNJ. They have a beautiful website, you fill out and application, apply for applicable scholarships and its smoother than leasing a car.

The limudei chol there is a thousand times better than any Lakewood school. The limudei kodesh is impressive. At 8, my son was singing mishnayos in the playground, summarizing the parsha at the table and getting a grasp on halacha.

All my other children went to Baltimore schools, they were also a pleasure to deal with. I met children from Baltimore , Cleveland, Chicago, and Oak Park at shabbatons and they all were very enthusiastic about learning.

Conversely, my husband spoke to over a hundred Lakewood children , friday nights in the winter by Avos Ubonim.. Many of them have a lesaiise faire , lacadaisical attitude about learning, and their ability to discuss chumash, mishna, is weak..
Can someone please explain to me whats going on...

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 12:55 am

I was just responding to the amother who wrote how amazing Lakewood is because they set up a vaad to help the people of Lakewood. That is so far from the opposite that its scary. The vaad was set up years ago. Lakewood has been having an issue with schools for about twelve years now. If the vaad truly cared about the children of Lakewood then this issue would have been dealt with and parents wouldn't be going through such pain every single year. It's not so hard to figure out how many three year olds are there in Lakewood and how many four year olds etc. and figure out where the slots are going to be from which school. Even if the vaad can't fix the problem for next year they should fix it for two years from now. Why don't they care?

Another point is that a school can say they have no slots left and all of a sudden the rosh hayeshivas grandchild moves to Lakewood and suddenly not only does every school in Lakewood have an opening for this child but the schools are calling the parents begging for the child to come to them. That's why people are upset because if the right person wants a slot is available immediately,

Also why does the vaad wait for the parents to go through seven months if embarrassments before they finally step up to the plate and help people get in.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 1:07 am

amother wrote:

If you're living in Lakewood, how do you send your child to YNJ? That's quite a commute!

↑ ora_43 ↓

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 3:05 am

amother wrote:

If the vaad truly cared about the children of Lakewood then this issue would have been dealt with and parents wouldn't be going through such pain every single year. It's not so hard to figure out how many three year olds are there in Lakewood and how many four year olds etc. and figure out where the slots are going to be from which school.

From what people are describing here, it doesn't sound like something that can be dealt with in advance.

We have a similar issue in my community. When we moved here, they were just setting up a preschool. So that was one struggle. Then the next year, we had to work to get a kindergarten... etc (BH there are already established elementary schools, although there have been issues to deal with there, too).

The thing is, you can't set up a kindergarten in advance even if you know you'll need one. Nobody is willing to take a job in 2010 as the teacher in a kindergarten-that-will-be in 2012. Ditto re: finding space. Existing schools and gans aren't willing to let people call dibs on their classrooms in advance. It only works to come toward the end of the previous school year, when it's fairly clear how much space and how many teachers will be needed. (The main person dealing with this issue here would love to go ahead and create a new elementary school, middle school and high school right now if he could.)

Part of the issue is that you can't really know exactly how many kids there will be. If just a handful of families move away, or move in, that can be the difference between having enough kids that you need another class, or not.

I do agree that it should be done in May or June, not August. And again, it sounds like the exclusivity/inequality is a second issue that's confusing things further (here, the rabbis' kids are just as school-less as everyone else if things don't work out - there isn't a second option).

↑ amother ↓

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 3:14 am

Yes this is something that is an issue that can be worked out. You hear how chayelle wrote how her daughter is going into eighth grade and its going to be a big problem next year. Why is the vaad not dealing with the incoming year now to make sure they are enough slots for every girl. Why are they not instituting a rule where no girl can get an answer until every girl has a slot. There is a major shortage issue that will not go away until someone steps up to the plate to fix it. Why is a new girls elementary school first having talk of opening up now for September where was his school last September. Lakewood has a problem and it has to be fixed but to cry for ten to fifteen years it's a space issue but nothing is being done to fix the space issue in advance only a night before school then you can't come and say oh look how caring the vaad is.

Anyone who had encounters with the vaad can tell you that they are doing it out of force because they are the vaad and not because they sincerely want to help.

And no the vaad members are not voted in. We the people living in Lakewood don't get to chose who is on the vaad and who is not. It's an exclusive membership that most people are not allowed access to. Any vaad member that resigns there are fifty people that want the slot. So obviously it's a prestigious job to have if it's not a paying job and everyone wants to join.

↑ ora_43 ↓

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 3:20 am

So the Vaad is a group of volunteers, but not just anyone can join them?

Does the Vaad also include the rabbinic leadership? I see people are talking about various rabbis who are involved.

Is there an option for people to create a separate Vaad to work on school issues, specifically? Why hasn't that happened - would it be like a challenge to the Vaad's authority? Or do people feel like only the Vaad has the financial/political clout to make change?

Where I live, anyone who is even slightly interested in making change finds themselves invited to head a committee or project or something similar Smile

. I'm still trying to understand the idea of a "let's fix the community" group that can be picky about who it accepts Wink

↑ ora_43 ↓

Wed, Aug 27 2014, 3:22 am

amother wrote:

But if the issue is that there simply aren't enough schools/classrooms, and the Vaad doesn't have the power to create schools itself, how can they guarantee a solution? (I'm really asking here, not arguing)