Are you a good host?

↑ Pickle Lady

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 8:48 pm

right on shanie5!!!!

She sounds like a horible guest. I read what amother wrote to my husband and he was shocked that someone can be so rude. Amother you need to get your priorities straight.

mumoo ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 8:49 pm

Hosting is a mitzvah. It should be done with sensitivity to your guests. Maybe OP sounds ungrateful with her list, but as a hostess I would make sure my guests had clean sheets, pillows, towels. That they were shown specifically where the clean dishes (or paper goods) and food they can take are. And repeatedly told, "please let me know what you need."

I'm sure noone here would invite guests and not treat them like guests. If you can't host like Avraham Avinu, you don't have to extend the invitation.

OP didn't barge in these homes. She said she was an invited guest. If she is uncomfortable, the hosts should have tried harder. (I've had guests from gehenim; I just got bigger schar)

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:01 pm

mumoo you are right..Yes I always change the linen and put a fresh bar of soap Make sure there is something to put in the mouth.

But who are they to tell me how many bathrooms I should have. I make sure to have a clean bathroom..But I private bathroom? I am not a hotel.

But Do I make sure my kids are quiet??
Do I make sure to pack them lunch when they home??
Am I really that bad?

ceo ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:09 pm

mumoo wrote:

Hosting is a mitzvah. .....I'm sure noone here would invite guests and not treat them like guests. If you can't host like Avraham Avinu, you don't have to extend the invitation.

So, if you can't do a mitzvah perfectly, you shouldn't do it at all? Scratching Head

Doesn't sound like a Torah hashkafa to me.

↑ mumoo ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:14 pm

ceo wrote:

mumoo wrote:

Hosting is a mitzvah. .....I'm sure noone here would invite guests and not treat them like guests. If you can't host like Avraham Avinu, you don't have to extend the invitation.

So, if you can't do a mitzvah perfectly, you shouldn't do it at all? Scratching Head

Doesn't sound like a Torah hashkafa to me.

isn't there a middle ground between cooking a nine course meal, buying new mattresses/linens and having available food and clean sheets?

↑ anon ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:18 pm

Look, I don't think anyone is going to argue that guests should be given clean sheets. So let's not bring that up into the argument. Aside from that one point, amother's post was ridiculous.

↑ mumoo ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:19 pm

amother wrote:

Of course you don't have to have new construction in order to host guests. But if you invited an older person, who has just traveled for 14 hours and looks a little unwell, you probably wouldn't send your 4 little ones to play floor hockey next to his bedroom while he naps.

Come on, it's about common sense and sensitivity -on the part of both the guest and host. (But if we are the hosts, we can only take care of that part; when we are guests, its our part to be forgiving of our hosts)

Emuna ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:32 pm

OP - I think it's a bit harsh to use words like "posers" and "slobs" but I do see your point and it does make me think. I always feel bad about the screaming kids, but I assume the guests knew what they were getting into. I always try to cook a fresh meal and have clean sheets and bedding. But it's a really hard mitzvah. Thanks for bringing it to our attention, even though you are doing it in the wrong way - using harsh words and not giving your hosts the benefit of the doubt.

↑ ceo ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:34 pm

mumoo wrote:

Come on, it's about common sense and sensitivity -on the part of both the guest and host. (But if we are the hosts, we can only take care of that part; when we are guests, its our part to be forgiving of our hosts)

I have definetly had my time as a guest in dirty and disgusting home. However, I would never even DREAM of complaining. If someone offers to host yout and you want to take them up on it, that means you accept the fact that their housekeeping standards are not the same as yours. So what? You're only staying a few nights, not moving in. Recently, we stayed in a DISGUSTING house- you got it- diapers all over the place. I wouldn't stay with these people again. But, B'H, my parents raised me well, and it wouldn't even cross my mind to complain, even on an anonymous internet board.
Sure, of course you need to be sensitive to your quests. You should go out of your way to help them as much as possible and make them comfortable, but amother's laundry list is a bit unreasonable. Not everyone has a separate bathroom, for instance. Or, some people eat off of paper plates and utensils all the time. Like Emunah said, if it bothers you that kids are around, stay somewhere else. And changing sheets is a given.
I think that this statement, "Please dont serve us leftovers on dinky paper plates with plastic forks," shows that the o.p. is demanding. "I am doing my host a favor by not demanding better accomdations," doesn't really show any good middos of the OP.

"I am so sick and tired of frum women, who appear to be balebustas, behaving like slobs."

Since you're sick and tired, why don't you stay in a hotel?

Amother, grow up.

↑ anon ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 9:40 pm

Mumoo, you seem to be defending the OP, but you're putting words in her mouth or taking words out of her mouth. In other words, you're making her out to be a lot more reasonable than she is.

mumoo wrote:

Of course you don't have to have new construction in order to host guests.

Well, since the OP thinks that you can't invite guests without having a private bathroom for them, it would seem that many of us WOULD have to start renovating our homes and doing construction in order to accomodate guests.

Quote:

But if you invited an older person, who has just traveled for 14 hours and looks a little unwell, you probably wouldn't send your 4 little ones to play floor hockey next to his bedroom while he naps.

I believe the OP was disturbed by children playing around the dinner table. This is quite different than letting them play ball right outside their bedroom while they're sleeping.

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 10:09 pm

amother wrote:

1. A married couple needs a bedroom and (clean) separate bathroom. If you dont have a separate bathroom, and we will be using the bathroom your kids just took a bath in,or that you and your husband use, please reconsider the invitation.

2. Please supply a fresh bar of soap. The old soap bar and loofah in the guest bathroom is gross.

2. Clean sheets! Its obvious when you dont change the sheets between guests and possibly the most offensive thing you can possibly do. It's really horrifying but quite a few people I know havent bothered. One couple even "lent" us a blanket right off of their own bed!

3. Please supply an extra pillow, especially if the pillows on the beds are old and lumpy.

4. "Help yourself to the fridge" is a cop-out. I cant tell whats in your fridge or how old it is. A host has to offer a freshly made meal of some sort. Please dont serve us leftovers on dinky paper plates with plastic forks.

5. As cute as your kids are, we cannot carry on a conversation when they are all screaming and running around the dinner table. You may be used to it, but we are getting a migraine.

6. A messy house is disgusting and dirty diapers strewn about make us want to get the heck out asap.

7. We can make sandwiches for our flight in but for our flight out, please prepare an adequate amount of food so that we dont have to buy bagels in cvs on the way to the airport.

1. If you can not handle sharing a bathroom with your host family, find another place to stay. Not everyone has the luxury of having a house with private guest quarters. Yes, a bathroom should be neat and tidy (I do make sure of this before I have a guest). You should also be given a bath towel, face towel, and washcloth. You should also be told where you can get an extra towel, just in case. (I put my guests' towels neatly on their beds). If you need a private bath, only stay in a place where you know one is available!

2. If you do not see a fresh bar of soap, ask for one! Or bring your own. Don't embarass your hostess, just ask nicely. She will be happy to oblige. Just ignore the old bar, and use the new one.

I've never been in a place where the sheets were not fresh! And why is it so horrible that they gave you THEIR blanket so that YOU would be comfortable. THEY were probably cold that night. If your offended that you had to use their blanket, think about how many people use a blanket in a hotel room.

3. BYOP--Bring Your Own Pillow (if you are so upset with what your hosts have!

4. Saying "help yourself" is a very nice offer. A hostess tells you to take whatever you would like, even the most expensive piece of fruit, cheese, or juice. Many people are on very tight budgets, and go week to week. They are telling you to eat what you like, and there is no problem. Many people can not afford to make a fancy dinner during the week. How do you know what is leftover and what is made fresh. Must something be made the second you walk through the door?

5. Don't stay anywhere where there are kids. It is there home, not yours.

6. Not everyone can afford cleaning help. You are right dirty diapers are gross, but that's what happerns when there are kids. You can not expect a house with kids to be spotless. It'll never happen. See #5 above.

7. How do they know what your dining plans are before your flight? If you ask nicely and politely for a couple of sandwiches and some drink and snacks, a hostess will be more than happy to oblige!

If you stay in a place during a weekday, a family does not drop their entire schedule for YOU. There are jobs, homework, carpools, appointments, that must taken care of. IF you require someone's undivided attention to survive on a trip, then you must make this clear before staying in someone else's home. Then they can decide if they have the time to have you as their guest.

How are you as a guest, amother? Do you thank your hostess? Do you bring a gift upon your arrival? Do you send a thank you note? Do you help set the table? Do you help make the salad? Do you help clear? Do you make the beds before your departure and fold the blankets? (Or better, remove the sheets and ask the hostess if she would like you to take them to the laundry room!) Do you tidy up the bathroom when you are finished, folding your towels or putting them in the laundry?
There are plenty of things you can do that can make your hosts enjoy having you as a guest!

If you can't handle a staying in a home while on business..
I think you should really check yourself into a full-service, five-star hotel.
That seems to be what you are expecting.
(You forgot to mention that you'd like a mint placed on your pillow and turn-down service before retiring at night!)

↑ mumoo ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 10:10 pm

I was trying to be reasonable myself while being dan lechuf zechus.

about defending OP-we can learn something from everybody

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 10:13 pm

amother#2. If I had to serve my guests meals all the time, I couldn't have them. I barely manage to put food on my own table. I try to relay that they shouldn't expect meals, except for Shabbos. is there something wrong with that?

↑ amother ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 10:15 pm

Just because we may not agree with OP's standards does not give any one of us license to talk down to her whether as 'amother' or under our own screen names. I'm simply disheartened by some comments. I think we're better off not judging anyone until we've walked a mile in their shoes. And please, if you can delete those offensive comments kindly do so at your earliest convenience...

Ima'la ↓

Sun, Feb 04 2007, 10:23 pm

amother wrote:

I would stay in a hotel but I travel for business, and generally try to help with the travel costs by not demanding a hotel.

Wrong - you are trying to reduce the travel costs, but you ARE demanding hotel accommodations!

Quote:

I am doing my host a favor by not demanding better accomodations. And be thankful what I get for free? Is that what you tell your parents when they come visit? Or your machatonim? Thats the reaction of a Shlepper.

No, that's not what the host tells the guest - it's what another guest tells the guest. Your lengthy 5-star list is beautiful if it's YOUR checklist for when YOU play hostess. When YOU are the GUEST, the only lists you should be composing are "How to be a Good GUEST"!!!

↑ lotte

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 5:32 am

Yes,we can learn from each person,from this mother we can learn :
How NOT to be!
I have not been shocked like this for a while!

She needs serious work on her middos!!!!!!

↑ amother ↓

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 5:56 am

Wow! I'm really shocked at the OP. She sounds so, so ungrateful. Hachnasas Orchim is a difficult mitzvah, and Kol HaKavod to anyone who opens her home with a warm smile...even if she can't provide "perfect" accomodations.

A personal story: DH and I only have two sets of pillows/blankets...one for him and one for me. When we have guests DH and I give them OUR pillows/blankets. We prepare the guest beds (ok, cots on the floor) ahead of time so they won't realize we're giving them our (freshly laundered) linens. We recently had guests and we gave them our pillows, blankets, and space heater (with smiles on our faces). DH and I slept in our rooms wearing winter coats, hats, and gloves.

Did we complain? No. Did we give our guests any reason to think we had sacrificed a comfortable night's sleep for them? No. Will we continue to host guests? Yes.

So OP, stop being so ungrateful and appreciate whatever your hosts give you.

Oh, and I'm afraid we ONLY have one bathroom and don't own china either.

↑ greenfire ↓

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 5:58 am

By the way - I invited about 24 people over to my house - when my house was a wreck. It was my sons bar mitzva and my dd was in the hospital for months and she was just coming out and bar mitzva still needed to happen so - I said what the hell and they all came. You might all think it a bit strange - oh yeah and the bathroom sink decided to get clogged erev shabbos. But you know what - we had a beautiful bar mitzva. The sheets and blankets were clean - everybody camped downstairs - together. I had plenty of food - cause for me it's easy to cook. I got help from my friends for some extras like salad and kugel. Had 3 tables and lots of borrowed chairs that I asked my brother to help get erev shabbos. And had constant coffee going. You know it was more beautiful than I could have dreamed of cause the people there were the people I needed for both the comfort of my sick dd and the simcha of my only son. And although my sister and some of you may be mortified I would do it again in a heartbeat. Colors

↑ Ima'la ↓

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 6:02 am

good for you, greenfire!!! Thumbs Up

shabbatiscoming ↓

Mon, Feb 05 2007, 6:29 am

A married couple needs a bedroom and (clean) separate bathroom. If you dont have a separate bathroom, and we will be using the bathroom your kids just took a bath in,or that you and your husband use, please reconsider the invitation.[/quote]
um, we do not all live in large homes with more than one bathroom. we have had 5 guests in our apartment, with one bathroom and everything was just fine. nobody complained. when you are a guest, you are in someone elses territory....

Quote:

2. Please supply a fresh bar of soap. The old soap bar and loofah in the guest bathroom is gross.

im sorry, are you in a hotel or someone elses home? are you for real?

Quote:

2. Clean sheets! Its obvious when you dont change the sheets between guests and possibly the most offensive thing you can possibly do. It's really horrifying but quite a few people I know havent bothered. One couple even "lent" us a blanket right off of their own bed!

about clean sheets, that I do agree with, but the blanket, what if the couple does not have enough blankets to go around? you can just put another cover over the cover and everything is ok.

Quote:

3. Please supply an extra pillow, especially if the pillows on the beds are old and lumpy.

same thing here, not everyone has extra pillows. I know that when we have many guests, I have to give my pillow to guests b/c I would rather them have a lumpy old one than no pillow at all.

Quote:

4. "Help yourself to the fridge" is a cop-out. I cant tell whats in your fridge or how old it is. A host has to offer a freshly made meal of some sort. Please dont serve us leftovers on dinky paper plates with plastic forks.

you cant tell whats in the fridge? are you for real? just open it and see what is in there and look into containers. what in theworld is the big deal with that? I know that if a host tells me to help myself to the fridge, I always get a smile b/c I know that they want me to feel at home, like I am in my own home. and dont forget, you are at someone's home, NOT a hotel.....

Quote:

5. As cute as your kids are, we cannot carry on a conversation when they are all screaming and running around the dinner table. You may be used to it, but we are getting a migraine.

if you dont like it, dont stay there, it is not your home, it is your hosts.

Quote:

6. A messy house is disgusting and dirty diapers strewn about make us want to get the heck out asap.

if you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen!!!!!!!!

Quote:

7. We can make sandwiches for our flight in but for our flight out, please prepare an adequate amount of food so that we dont have to buy bagels in cvs on the way to the airport.

youve got to be kidding. your hosts are suposed to supply you with a bed and bathroom and whatever the heck is in their fridge, not anything more than that. would you also like a gourmet meal to go????? you are unbeievable.

Quote:

I am just so sick and tired of frum women, who appear to be balebustas, behaving like slobs.

just because a woman is not acting how you do or how you are used to does NOT mean that she is a slob, it means that she runs her home differently than you....here is a question for you OP, do you have children? if not, I think that you should rethink your entire post......if you do, are you the way you described when guests come over?

Last edited by shabbatiscoming on Mon, Feb 05 2007, 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total