would your kids do this? Please be honest about it

Log in / Sign Up

List of Forums + New Post Recipe Box Usergroups Following My Posts Bookmarks

Private Messages Rules New User Guide FAQ Advertise Contact Us

Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Other special days

Would your kids do this? Please be honest about it

1 2 3 4 5 Next

View latest: 24h 48h 72h

freidasima ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:42 am

So this is actually a post that is prompted by my dh.
Explanations in a minute

An hour or so ago we heard tons of noise downstairs, we live on the first floor. Below us are the machsanim of our building in a closed area under the building. I went downstairs and was horrified to see that a bunch of religious kids, from the neighborhood including one from our building (all aged around 11-14) had taken a big bookcase that we had standing next to the entrance to our machsan and a big desk we also had put downstairs and destroyed them, taking them apart for Lag Baomer. They were busy kicking the pieces around and playing with them in the machsan area when I got downstairs. Tons of little pieces. And this is all white covered wood, the Ikea kind of stuff (think "billy bookcase") which is a carcinogen to burn anyhow.

Now all this is under the building, closed, can't be seen from the outside and only by people from the building going around to the machsan area which is not open to be seen. And it was obvious that anything in that area is not hefker, otherwise it would be outside on the curb to be taken away as is done in our area. And again, these kids are from here.

So they just basically came and tore apart and were going to steal this stuff for their lag baomer bonfires tomrorow night.

I caught them, gave them a talking to and then dh came down and was horrified to see that one of the boys was the shul's gabbai's son. He told them it was Gezel, that it was not hefker and they live here and should know that from where it had been standing.

We came back up and I mentioned that I don't know whether this is Israeli or not but I don't believe that frum kids in America would have done something like that and that this is pure Israeli where people don't really take the idea of other people's private property seriously.

So he said "why don't you ask on imamother"...and so I am asking.

Would your kids (or their friends) have done something like this at that age?

Tamiri ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:44 am

It's Israeli. My opinion. And I'd kill my kids and make them buy replacements afterwards.

Tablepoetry ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:45 am

My kids - I sure hope not.

But I see TONS of dati kids entering private property here to pillage for wood, especially homes that are under construction/look like they have been abandoned for a while.

Methinks a public awareness campaign is long overdue.

MaBelleVie

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:45 am

Wow! Glad you caught them before it was too late. Where I live? Never! Ever ever ever. I can think of one specific location in the US that I am familiar with where children have more of an "Israeli chutzpah." There, possibly. (There may be other places I'm not familiar too.)

amother ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:48 am

I don't think so. I see plenty of kids around here gathering Lag B'Omer stuff but it seems to be mostly tree branches and stuff. But you never know.....

↑ freidasima ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:50 am

Ma Belle it was too late, the table and bookcase are in smithereens. Gone. I told them straight out, Those were 1000 shekel worth of furniture that they trashed...

I'm really interested if kids abroad would do this...

HindaRochel ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:50 am

No. Very simple NO! And if they did, and I found out about it? Well guess what, you are working off that money.

Uh, uh.

My daughter collected with Ezra, and her madricha was with them. When there was a question the madricha insisted they knock on the door and ask; can we use this?

Yeah. I'd talk to moms and dads there.

shabbatiscoming ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:53 am

FS, two things: were these things slated to be thrown out? Meaning, I know when I lived in a building it was a known thing that when things were just randomly outside of a machsan, they were throw awayable. (not that that justifies what these kids did, at all) and second, I agree with Tamiri, these kids should have to pay for the damage that they have done.
Terrible. And I dont know if this is american vs israeli, but this generation of kids is a "magiya li", "me, me, me" generation, so they for sure just did not think of anything or anyone before they started to destroy.
Sorry for you guys.

↑ HindaRochel

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:53 am

Tamiri wrote:

It's Israeli. My opinion. And I'd kill my kids and make them buy replacements afterwards.

Replacement items or replacement kids LOL

geshmak

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 8:59 am

Another NO, from America, I don't think my boys or their friends would do this. And like others have said, if they ever do ruin another person's property (I.e. school desk) they would pay for it from their money.
I really want to believe that it wasn't viciousness from these boys, just a lack of foresight. Hey, we need wood for the bonfire, and here is wood. I believe they just didn't think farther than that. Sorry for your lost furniture.

Isramom8 ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:05 am

I really think my 10 and 11 year olds would discuss with their friends if they think the wood belongs to anyone, and not break and use it if they weren't sure.

↑ Tamiri ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:05 am

From my experience growing up a bit and bringing up kids for 16 years in the U.S.... you don't even walk on someone's lawn without permission!!!! Something at the curb is free-for-all, but that's it. (We got some nice things that way LOL)

↑ Tablepoetry ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:11 am

Yes, but OTOH a building is considered semi-public....so if there was a piece of wood outside the building, OUTSIDE a machsan, I can see maybe maybe how kids could think it was up for grabs....

Anyway, IME come lag ba'omer season hang on to any wooden furniture you have for dear life. I'm surprised kids aren't knocking our wood door down for their bonfire.

↑ freidasima ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:17 am

No it was not slated to be thrown out, it was actually in use, the desk was too wide for the machasan, the bookcase too tall. Think a two meter 20 bookcase with the machsan two meters high, it was also obvious from the place that it wasn't hefker, these are not open machsanim that anyone can walk into by accident.

to understand the layout think as if the building was not on pillars but that there was a ground floor. The only thing is that the "ground floor" runs around three sides of the building like a "U". The front part is the entrance to the building with the two top tips of the U not having a door but being a three meter wide open space between the core of the building in the middle and this U of machsanim going around the building ground floor.

It's not an open space, it's not a play space, and this was next to the door of the machsan with things on the shelves!

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:18 am

It's a matter of chinuch. We ASK our kids where they got unusual wood, we EXPLAIN that they need permission, we TEACH them that it's not okay to use shopping carts from the supermarkets to transport it.

spelling edit

Last edited by Isramom8 on Sat, Apr 27 2013, 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total

↑ Tamiri ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:23 am

Chadrei madreigot are private property, owned equally between the tenents IIRC.

yo'ma ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:32 am

I hope not, but truthfully I have no idea. My 10ds class went on a trip and while there, they were making fun of a homeless man. 4 of the boys were suspended for a day for doing that. My ds didn't go on the trip because of whatever reason, but I asked him if he would have joined in. He couldn't give me a definite answer because while he knows it's completely wrong, there's also the mob mentality.

I can't picture exactly what you're talking about, but if it's somewhere that they all know 100% know that it's not hefker, I would hope my children would know better.

Tamiri, it sounds like you raised/raising your children very well. My 10ds said that he doesn't think we're allowed to walk on other peoples outline of their lawn. You know the thing that people put along their lawns and little kids like to walk on? I said I don't know, but he's probably right. Are you allowed to sit on other peoples steps without their permission? What about an apartment building steps?

↑ freidasima ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:34 am

I think that these parents probably teach their children to respect private property as well, in general.
But there is a kind of lassiez faire about kids here that I'm not sure exists in the USA. Where "well you know, children will be children" kind of thing among the bred and born Israelis where private property...well, this is a country that used to honor the idea of "stealing a chicken from the lool (chicken coop) to have at the kumzitz" kind of thing....it was the socialist idea, what is yours is mine and vice versa...

so they don't take it personally as we used to abroad. And even though these are frum kids and it is stealing, if confronted with it, I would say the parents would take responsibility but in general my guess is that they used to do the same thing as kids and so they will turn a blind eye unless we stick their noses into it. Which I don't know if I have the strength to do. Because each kid will say "it was the other" and then go and round up six different sets of parents and start on them one by one?! Who has the koyach...

↑ yo'ma

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:39 am

You're asking here if it's an israeli mentality, if our children would do it. When the israeli imamothers respond, are their children considered israeli if one or both of their parents aren't israeli? A person doesn't completely have the same mentality as the country if they're brought up by parents of another country. What I'm saying is, do israeli imamother responses count? Understand?

↑ Tamiri ↓

Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:43 am

yo'ma wrote:

Tamiri, it sounds like you raised/raising your children very well. My 10ds said that he doesn't think we're allowed to walk on other peoples outline of their lawn. You know the thing that people put along their lawns and little kids like to walk on? I said I don't know, but he's probably right. Are you allowed to sit on other peoples steps without their permission? What about an apartment building steps?

I'm old enough to remember what upbringing used to be like... the old fashioned method where parents were responsible for children and children had to be respectful. You cannot sit one someone's front step in chu"l without permission.

Sitting on the stairs of a building? When people sat on the stairs leading to the sidewalk at my parent's (Israeli) building, it annoyed the neighbors. People felt they were entitled. They still do it. I am not sure anyone from the building has said anything, but it IS private property. People also take the liberty of using the building's driveway cause parking is scarce there. I'm not kidding!

We moved our current home 4 years ago. We live 30 steps up from one street, and a very steep narrow path down from the street above us. Our backyard is literally the side of a mountain, a cliff - no homes, overgrown weeds etc. and it's probably public property.

To get from my street to the road above my house, you can keep walking my winding street to get to the top street, which is above and behind my house. 3-4 minutes.

When we moved in, we kept seeing people coming UP our steps from street level, across the side yard of our house, to get the BACK of our house where they could climb up the cliff (there is a sort of beaten path) to get to the street above, in less than a minute. Same on the way down: people would climb OVER the stone fence bordering sidewalk/street above our house (meaning: it's not a proper access route LOL), skid their way down the path beaten into the cliff, calmly enter out back yard, then side yard, pass our windows and walk down our stairs to get to the street. We stopped that habit but... I am sure plenty of people here muttered under their breath about the unfairness of it all!

That's Israel... take what you can while the taking is good!

Last edited by Tamiri on Fri, Apr 26 2013, 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total

Page 1 of 5

1 2 3 4 5 Next