Question regarding parents marriage

amother ↓

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 11:44 am

AS a BT I am always looking into my parents past.

I come to discover that my father was married previously, before he married my mother.

When I asked my mother she said oh yeah, he told me that she passed away.

Upon research I found out that in reality she moved away! He refused to give her a GET!

Additionally, my parents ketubah is no kosher. As one of the witnesses is a family member..

So maybe this is why my life is such a mess??

I am anon because it's embarasing

Chanie

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 12:25 pm

momofgirls wrote:

Gosh, that is scarey did u speak to a rav about this?

Nothing scary. According to the Torah, a man is allowed to have more then one wife. This being the case, amother is not a mamzer, even if her parents were never married.
Dont worry, amother, but if it'll clear your consious, speak to a rav.

Chayary

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 12:28 pm

As a BT I can understand your concern. That being said, I think that we can only live our lives as they are. Worrying about the mystical implications of the past is not super helpful. You have made a break with the road of life that your parents took, in every way. Being that it was your father's status that you are worried about, halachically there is not a problem. We are not punished for the actions of our parents, we are only responsible for ourselves and our actions. Hatzlacha coping with this!

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 12:48 pm

I knew my mom was married before she married my father. My mother grew up conservative/traditional and together my parents (who are now divorced, by the way) became quazi modern orthodox with a leaning towards conservative. I asked my mother casually if she ever received a get from her first husband. Without batting an eye, she answered, "No, I didn't think it would make much of a difference" All the blood drained from my face (or was it my whole body?). I almost fainted (though I wasnt married at the time). She let this go on for a good 10 minutes before she said, "Are you crazy? Do you think Bubby would ever let me get divorced without a kosher get? We didnt keep shabbos or kosher but we DIDNT eat pork and we DIDNT get remarried without a kosher get from an ORTHODOX Rabbi."

supermom

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 12:59 pm

Chanie wrote:

momofgirls wrote:

Gosh, that is scarey did u speak to a rav about this?

In your case then what makes a person a mamzer?

DefyGravity

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 1:12 pm

If a woman was halachically married to a Jew, then divorced him without a get, remarried a Jew and had a proper Jewish wedding - then any children born to that couple would be considered mamzerim.

(It's my understanding that they have to have a kosher wedding - if not, it's null and void - or maybe this is a loophole Rabbanim use).

Of course, I could be wrong.

mimsy7420 ↓

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 1:18 pm

supermom wrote:

Chanie wrote:

momofgirls wrote:

Gosh, that is scarey did u speak to a rav about this?

In your case then what makes a person a mamzer?

If the mother has a baby with someone other then her husband. Unless she divorced her husband and got a GET, then she can remarry and have children. But if she got married without a get from her first husband then all subsequent children will be mamzerim. This is not the same for a man because a man can not be an aishes ish, only a woman can. And technically a man can have more then one wife. So if he has children with a second wife without giving a GET to the first wife, those children will not be mamzerim.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 1:19 pm

I have a simliar situation. I freaked out when I first found out about it (I was 15) but I called a rav who told me it wasn't a problem. My mother was married before she married my father, for a very short time, and never got a get. But - the man she was married to wasn't jewish. So according to halacha it wasn't a valid marriage anyway.
Also - A mamzer is someone who is born out of a forbidden marriage - like an affair, or incest - a child born out of wedlock is NOT a mamzer. Wedlock is not just a single mother - halachically, if 2 people did not have a kosher wedding, then the child would be considered born out of wedlock, but that doesn't have any halachic significance.

queen

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 1:46 pm

As defy mentioned.... most probably the first marriage wasn't done in a kosher way = so in all reality, they weren't even married to each other, so no need for a get.

OF COURSE......
(drum roll.......)
AYLOR

Very Happy

↑ mimsy7420

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 1:47 pm

amother wrote:

Yea, she had to have been an aishes ish.

↑ amother ↓

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 1:53 pm

amother wrote:

I kow lots of people whose lineage is squeaky clean and their lives are messes. Please don't give yourself a minute of worry over what you can't change.
B’makom sheh’baalei teshuvah omdim ayn tzadikim gemurim omdim (In the place where BT’s stand, even the most righteous cannot stand).

chocolate moose

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 2:22 pm

The Lub Rebbe says that mikvah is retroactive. I dom't knnow about other mitzvos.....

You do what you know you should/shouldn't, and focus on the present and the future, rather than the past which can't be changed.

ny21

Thu, Dec 14 2006, 2:29 pm

[quote="DefyGravity"]If a woman was halachically married to a Jew, then divorced him without a get, remarried a Jew and had a proper Jewish wedding - then any children born to that couple would be considered mamzerim.

(It's my understanding that they have to have a kosher wedding - if not, it's null and void - or maybe this is a loophole Rabbanim use).

I agree with this posting , this is what I have learned in school.

chavamom

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 3:04 am

shira wrote:

But isnt biah another way to be mikadesh a woman? Not just shtar and kesef (what happens at the chasunah)

I believe you are correct, but there are all sorts of situations where this doesn't apply - a man who has an affair doesn't have to give a get to the woman he had an affair with, a harlot doesn't become a 'wife' through the act.

↑ amother

Fri, Dec 15 2006, 9:28 am

I spoke with a Rav and he said the same thing that all of you said.

My mother did nothing wrong, so it really should not affect me, when my father does something wrong.