I choose my teens over my religion!

spinkles ↓

Mon, Dec 17 2012, 5:03 pm

Quote:

Because, it was for them that I became religious, to give them a community and what I thought was a pure life. If they are rejecting it, it must not be all that I thought it was, at least for them as individuals.

It's a hard situation, to have chosen a community b/c you thought it was utopia and then find it's not.

No matter where you look, you're never going to find utopia. People are, by Hashem's design, flawed.

You have to look for people who are on your wavelength, and build a life with them. It's true no matter where you live, no matter where your community is. Building a life for your kids and yourself requires vigilance and thought.

Quote:

the chinuch system is all about controlling the kids, and getting the parents to control the kids, and schools controlling the parents.

Wow that's a strong statement. It b"H hasn't been my experience. No school is perfect, but I'm grateful to the vast majority of my kids' teachers, who are dedicated, hardworking, and genuinely want the best for my kiddos.

I know there are schools out there like you mention. But I don't get how you can call it "the chinuch system," I.e. a huge sweeping generalization, when there are so many wonderful mechanchim out there who are moser nefesh for our kinderlach?

Quote:

If we would just stop, step back, and see that our children are more important than our religion

This is a false dichotomy.

Everything is religion. There's nothing--not work, not family, not anything--that's separate from Yiddishkeit. Life is religion, there's not separate, they're one.

Seems like you equate religion with fitting into a cookie cutter image rather than with avodas Hashem and building your relationship with the Creator. Why not just say, a warm relationship with my kids is more important than fitting in to some silly externals that some people judge me on?

↑ greenfire ↓

Mon, Dec 17 2012, 6:02 pm

chana_f wrote:

Greenfire, were you responding to what I said? If so, what did I say that doesn't apply universally?

yes I am ... everything ... just because you fit into a wonderful community doesn't mean it's the same for everybody within same community ...

do you not realize that if you don't fit in one is otherwise ostracized ?!?!?!

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 1:07 am

ROFL wrote:

And what if your child decides on an intellectual level that religion is not the way to go? I still love my children ,but unfortunately don't think they will come back. But I still hope that there will be some sort of miracle and they will find their way back home.

Still love them. A relationship is the only way you will have any influence at all. And as a parent, you still need to always care for/about their physical and emotional safety. I think that's my role as a mother.

(I have a relative my kids' age I'm close with who is intermarried, so I have some idea of how I actually react to this kind of thing.)

↑ amother ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 1:34 am

I will love my kids whether they are OTD or not. However, it's a struggle to not let my deep disappointment seep through. In addition to all the regular reasons women want to have kids, I felt a strong need to do my part to ensure the continuation of the Jewish people. But if my kids are OTD, I have not achieved that goal.

Such is life. You do your best to raise your kids and then they grow up and do whatever they want.

↑ chani8 ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 1:42 am

This is really not about social pressure. When my child goes against what I believe is halacha, it is not social pressure that causes me to see red. It is about the fact that the child is trampling on G-d's rules, aka halacha. How do you deal with that??

And if your underlying goal in being "unconditionally loving" to your child, is in order to keep them on the derech or from going OTD, then you really don't love them unconditionally.

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 1:46 am

chani8 wrote:

How do you deal with anyone trampling on G-d's rules? People trample. Fact of life.

Remind me again which mitzvah it is to love children and other people "unconditionally", I.e. minus the loving desire to keep them on the basic derech Hashem created to be good for us.

See, for me it's all integrated. My responsibility to my children is not separate from my avodas Hashem.

↑ Culturedpearls ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 2:56 am

chani8 wrote:

If you believe that your child is doing something harmful to himself, do you not see red? If your little one doesn't listen to your instructions & get lost, does your heart not beat violently? If your teen takes a car without a license & c"v has an accident , are you not furious with him for endangering himself?
Does that mean that you do not love them unconditionally?
My children are a part of my heart. When they hurt, I hurt. Just like I get angry with myself I get angry with them.
To reject Torah, which is life & cut themselves off from all that is eternal is a tragedy. Yes, I'd be angry & hurt that my child, a part of my heart is hurting himself so. Why? Because I love them.

↑ chani8 ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 7:18 am

If a teen physically hurts himself, he sees the consequences. The threat of police and jail are great deterrents against breaking the secular laws. But if a teen breaks halacha, what are the consequences? He doesn't see anything or feel anything.

Except, we, the parents, are meant to be the law enforcers.

Or, ideally, we are supposed to inspire our teen to want to keep the mitzvos out of love for Hashem.

But either way, the message we give our teen is that our religious expectations of them, our religion, is more important than our relationship with them.

Inspired ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 7:23 am

chani8 wrote:

I think this is another one of those extremist things they taught you in rbs that isn't actually Judaism.

↑ chani8 ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 7:40 am

Inspired wrote:

chani8 wrote:

I think this is another one of those extremist things they taught you in rbs that isn't actually Judaism.

Maybe so. But I'm trying to keep it about the here and now, and what I keep fighting with myself about. Why should I be the one to police/enforce/punish on our religious laws? Parenting teens who are pushing the limits is just as confusing as having your aunt show up in a low cut top and tight pants. You don't know what to do. You have standards, you have rules, you believe the halacha is emes, but you also shouldn't want to offend and insult them. But no matter what, if you say something, anything to them, the message is that you choose halacha over them.

↑ Inspired ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 7:50 am

chani8 wrote:

Inspired wrote:

chani8 wrote:

I think this is another one of those extremist things they taught you in rbs that isn't actually Judaism.

There are ways to say things to people with respect and love.

Were you at all prepared that your children were going to grow up into thinking individuals with their own feelings and a desire to carve out their own path in life? You aren't a carbon copy of your parents. I don't understand what you thought was going to happen when your kids grew up.

↑ chani8 ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 8:04 am

Inspired wrote:

You can speak with respect and love all you want to a teen, but if the topic of conversation is annoying to them, and they sense you have an agenda, they won't want to listen.

No, I was not prepared for teens. And I wouldn't call them 'thinking individuals' so much, either. They are hormonal and unstable and thinking under peer pressure.

Are you having an easy time with your teens?

↑ Culturedpearls ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 8:30 am

Chani8, I think you're just having a hard time parenting teens. You'll find your bearing but keep in mind that they want rules, crave rules. Yes they want love & they'll push you to your limits & test you. Ultimately, they want to see you as a rock of stability in all aspects of their life wether it's Halacha or doing the dishes.
I remember my oldest hitting 15 & we were tested daily, we were the strictest parents in the universe, the meanest, didn't love him etc etc.
Many parents are afraid of their kids, scared of pushing too far.
I told my kids clearly that in my house its my rules, I'm not afraid of you period. I'm not afraid of a teen accusing me of not loving them & I don't engage in those discussions.
You may think that my kids rebelled & don't want anything to do with me. But there's nothing further from the truth, once the boundaries were clearly established we were all free to enjoy our relationship.
It's gratifying having your grown son express his appreciation for all the work you invested & the boundaries you set.
I recommend "parenting with love & logic". An excellent book, which taught me how to give a child healthy choices & experience consequences of his poor ones.

↑ Isramom8 ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 9:44 am

We definitely clash with our teens sometimes. But overall, they are well aware of our values, while at the same time we don't force them into religious activities. Their friends like hanging out in our house. It's a fine balance between modeling high standards and honestly appreciating teens exactly as they are at the moment. A challenge to create a working balance between a structured home and a chilled, relaxed one. May we all have siyata dishmaya with this.

sneakermom ↓

Tue, Dec 18 2012, 10:28 am

chani8 wrote:

But either way, the message we give our teen is that our religious expectations of them, our religion, is more important than our relationship with them.

When I held my baby for the first time and put her to my breast to nurse. When I bonded with her fiercly and vowed to protect her all my life. Did I think of religion? No.

I thought of souls. I am a soul from G-d and be bequeathed me with this soul, this child to attach to, to nurture, to raise.

And I know the child won't be perfect. As it grows I have to learn to be accepting and not punishing or rejecting when she disappoints me.

If she struggles with religion....we will work on that. If she doesn't want to work on that. We need to air out our differences and still stay connected.

There is a piece of G-d in my child. And I revere that. That makes her sacred and I must always keep the connection.