Divorcing a woman that cheated

↑ mimsy7420 ↓

Fri, Sep 08 2006, 9:07 am

happymom wrote:

esther did NOT cheat on her husband. Mordechai told esther that it was the will of hashem. that is VERY different.

obviously it's different for Esther. She didn't cheat wilfully, and I'm sure she wasn't jumping for joy after going to Achashverosh on her own accord and forever being forbidden to her husband.
But until she went to Achashverosh on her own accord (obviously she was still captive etc and it was her own freee will up to a point) she could have technically gone back to her husband one day, but once she went to the king, she was no longer allowed to her husband, and that was a huge sacrifice she made on behalf of the Jewish people.

It was because of such a sacrifice that the Jewish people were saved.

↑ Motek ↓

Sun, Sep 10 2006, 1:05 pm

Lillyofthevalley wrote:

yes it is bad for her husband as well, its bad for them both, but when your raped and you feel lost and a part of you is robbed, hearing that you have to leave the man you trully love(hopefully) your husband is even more painful and in this instance I think that for a woman it is more painful.

I just don't see why it's any more painful for the wife to have to leave her beloved husband as it is painful for the husband to have to leave his beloved wife.

Quote:

I am allowed to feel and think that it is cruel

Allowed? I don't understand that. Who allows you? Why do you think it's okay to feel and think that G-d is cruel?

Isn't part of our serving G-d working on aligning our thoughts so that we think as the Torah thinks? So that which the Torah says is good and beautiful, we think too, and that which the Torah says is an abomination and sinful, we think so too?

As opposed to thinking that some of G-d's laws are cruel or ridiculous or outdated (G-d forbid) but gritting our teeth and following them anyway?

↑ yoyosma

Sun, Sep 10 2006, 1:11 pm

Motek,
I dont remember the source, but I learned once that the Baal Shem Tov said we are allowed to question and ask and beg because that will lead us to scream "Ad Mosai" and demand from Hashem that Moshiach come so these things that we dont understand or think are cruel will go away with the coming of Moshiach.

↑ shalhevet ↓

Sun, Sep 10 2006, 1:21 pm

yoyosma wrote:

so these things that we dont understand or think are cruel will go away with the coming of Moshiach.

Quote:

אני מאמין שזאת התורה לא תהא מוחלפת ולא תהא תורה אחרת מאת הבורא ית' שמו
I believe that this Torah will never change and there won't be a different Torah from Hashem
(Rambam, one of the 13 Principles of Faith)

Maybe the difference will be that we will understand Hashem's ways better.

Quote:

ומלאה הארץ דעה את ד'
And the whole world will be full of knowledge of Hashem

↑ redhot

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 9:27 am

healthymama wrote:

A blood test shows the parentage of the child by looking at the DNA. So it can definitively say whether or not a particular man is the father of a particular child.

I didnt realize that the child's paternity was in question, but after rereading the original comment, I see that the husband was fighting child support, so he must have been claiming that he was not the father. Still, it is possible for a woman to cheat and not conceive. So I thought he was just accussing her in general, and not that the child was not his. I misunderstood evidently.

↑ happy2beme

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 11:25 am

Quote:

after reading that a husband only must separate and divorce a cheating wife if there are two witnesses

nowadays, everything is different because we don't have the beis hamikdosh here & it's harder to judge correctly. but do u know how it used to be? we learned this in hs & I'm a little rusty but here it is.

if a man suspects his wife of cheating she would have to drink this 'potion' made up of diff spices & hashem's name written on ppr (which shows how much hashem wants there to be shalom bayis- risking His name to be erased just for shalom.)

after she would drink it, if she was guilty she would explode- everything would swell up & she would pop. even if she wasn't guilty she would still die. why? bec obviously she was doing something terribly wrong if her dh suspected such a thing- & bec of that- she deserved misah
so it's not so simple as 2 witnesses.
just think of how it used to be & realize how severe it is.

like I said im a little rusty- so if anyone has any corrections...

↑ mimsy7420 ↓

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 11:30 am

happy2beme wrote:

Quote:

after reading that a husband only must separate and divorce a cheating wife if there are two witnesses

If she was guilty she would explode after drinking the mixture, but if she was innocent she wouldn't die. The embarrasment of the whole thing, being accused in public, having her hair uncovered in public (which the Kohen did before he had her drink the mixture in front of everyone) is the punishment for being in a situation (ie yichud) with a man that would make her husband suspect her. Her womb would the be blessed by Hashem. But there would have had to have been 2 witnesses for the Kohen to make a public accusation, I think.

↑ mali ↓

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 11:35 am

only1 wrote:

But there would have had to have been 2 witnesses for the Kohen to make a public accusation, I think.

nope. if there are witnesses, she's stoned. they wouldn't erase the name of hashem if it's a known fact that she cheated. this method is only if the husband suspects her.

↑ mimsy7420 ↓

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 11:39 am

yea I wasn't sure about that part. That sounds more correct.

But how do they know the whether the witnesses aren't lying? Wouldn't it be better to have every accused woman drink the stuff? Just in case? Unless her death will be on the witnesses souls and conscience. And it will be as if they murdered her. But what if they really did think she cheated but were mistaken?

↑ mali

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 11:42 am

only1 wrote:

But how do they know the whether the witnesses aren't lying? Wouldn't it be better to have every accused woman drink the stuff? Just in case? Unless her death will be on the witnesses souls and conscience. And it will be as if they murdered her. But what if they really did think she cheated but were mistaken?

Just like any other Din Torah brought to the Sanhedrin that involves capital punishment. They have to be very careful, investigate the matter deeply and question the witnesses on every tiny detail.

↑ mimsy7420

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 11:47 am

mali wrote:

only1 wrote:

Just like any other Din Torah brought to the Sanhedrin that involves capital punishment. They have to be very careful, investigate the matter deeply and question the witnesses on every tiny detail.

Oh ok as long there was investigation.
I had visions of the 2 witnesses taking it upon themselves to stone her. But obviously if the sanhedrin was involved it happened with much more diligence.

amother ↓

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 12:25 pm

My sibling had to divorce because his wife cheated on him , and this is what a rav who is respected by everyone in lubavitch said.
" according to halach when it comes to these things there is no such a thing as 2 aidim, no one does something like this infront of 2 kosher ( which in itself is hard) aidim. saying that if a husband knows for anyreason beyond a doubt then they are obligated to get divorced and it is as if there were to kosher adim there"

↑ shalhevet

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 12:32 pm

happy2beme wrote:

even if she wasn't guilty she would still die. why? bec obviously she was doing something terribly wrong if her dh suspected such a thing- & bec of that- she deserved misah

like I said im a little rusty- so if anyone has any corrections...

If she was innocent she didn't die. In fact she is promised blessings (such as having children if she didn't previously) because she was falsely accused.

↑ healthymama ↓

Mon, Sep 11 2006, 10:06 pm

From what I understand, the husband, even if he is a cohen, can refuse to accept the accusations of cheating and then he does not necessarily have to ask for a divorce. Not sure though, but it does sound more complicated that what has been presented so far.