Shal, Saw, I totally agree as well. As a mother, as the wife of an educator, as a psychologist.
What balderdash. you can get into gehokte zurris if you want to just behind a closed door with your parents sitting in the living room with a connecting wall to you bedroom. Is that why my very lovely but controlling mother in law never allowed any doors to be closed in their home except a bathroom door and if it was closed for more than two minutes she would knock to find out what was going on? What a horror.
My children spent a lot of time at home alone as teenagers. Did they get into "trouble"? Not the kind some of you are referring to, simply because they had a decent upbringing and knew limits. Did those limits include not using the computer? Heck no, the computer was at their disposal, they had to use it for school all the time. Did they have friends over? Sure. Did they trash my kitchen cooking? Sure. Did they get yelled at afterwards? You betcha. Did they call me whenver they could to ask "maaaaahhhmeeeee!! Can I take money from the box (I would leave a box with cash for emergencies in a kitchen drawer) and go to the movies?" no. Watch TV it's free. "maaaahhhhmeeeee!! I'm bored" I would answer what my grandmother would say "zug vidui, lein krishma, there is always something to do."
Did they beat up each other? sure, why not, isn't that what siblings are for? Did they defend each other when someone OUTSIDE the family tried to beat up their siblings? Sure as heck they did.
In other words alone time can be beneficial. Kids don't know how to read? They can't use the phone to call friends? They can't go out as teens to meet friends? What's the big deal? Police state? Do you also sniff at the toilet after they have used it to see whether they had a stomachace? A bit of privacy please...
My teens can stay home alone. It's never more than a few hours at the most, because people are always coming home. The problem is that emotionally, it's bad for people to have no schedule. Bein hazmanim / extended summer vacation with no plans is a recipe for getting more and more annoyed and frustrated and annoying and frustrating.
I always find it slightly odd when shalhevet and I totally agree.Seriously? Not leaving a 14-18 year old alone?
I'm also surprised for a different reason. My teenage son didn't want to go to camp, and mechanchim and concerned family members thought we were doing something terrible to leave him unstructured. And vacation for teen boys is only a few weeks. But I was not going to pay $1500 and up for a child who didn't really want camp any way. Shalhevet, you usually have such Chareidi views here, but I guess maybe it's different in Israel?
"maaaahhhhmeeeee!! I'm bored" I would answer what my grandmother would say "zug vidui, lein krishma, there is always something to do."
Mamash funny.
And true. I don't know why parents think it's so terrible and awful for kids to be a little bored sometimes. Wash the dishes, do laundry, help out if you're bored. Oh, you're not that bored? Oh, good.
I always find it slightly odd when shalhevet and I totally agree.Seriously? Not leaving a 14-18 year old alone?
I'm also surprised for a different reason. My teenage son didn't want to go to camp, and mechanchim and concerned family members thought we were doing something terrible to leave him unstructured. And vacation for teen boys is only a few weeks. But I was not going to pay $1500 and up for a child who didn't really want camp any way. Shalhevet, you usually have such Chareidi views here, but I guess maybe it's different in Israel?
I understood what I commented on to mean that you shouldn't leave a teenage boy at home himself for more than half an hour because who knows what he'll get up to? Certainly not five or eight hours. I just think that's ridiculous - it just shows a lack of trust which in itself can breed problems. And is also ineffective, because you are only fooling yourself that you're exerting any control. So I wasn't commenting about camp in that post.
About teen boys and structure. First, here teenage boys are only off for three weeks, not two or three months (so that might make a difference). Second, I do think there should be (very limited) structure. Get up to daven. Learn for an hour. More if he wants - but not compulsory. But then let him have some time off to do what he wants. Read a book. Play Monopoly with his little sister. Go for a ride on his bike. Listen to music. Just chill out. There should be a trip or two - but it doesn't have to be every day. If there is something available - supervised by either family or yeshiva or similar to go on a real hiking trip for a day or two and he likes that - that's good. Our boys learn many hours all year and they (barring the one in a thousand real tzaddikim/masmidim) need a vacation so that they can learn well next zman too.
Shalhevet, where I live, bochurim dont ride bikes. and their little sisters arent home, theyure in school. (I'm talking about rosh chodesh nissan - pesach and rosh chodesh elul - rosh hashana. school is in session.) so if mommy is at work the entire time, and bochur is left to fend on his own for two week, it's not the best idea. not saying that this is why 50 yr old SAHMs dont return to the workforce, but it's a consideration.
I always find it slightly odd when shalhevet and I totally agree.Seriously? Not leaving a 14-18 year old alone?
Trust me, 14 to 18 year olds can get into more trouble than 9 year olds. Drugs and zex, for starters. Its everywhere. And its scary for us parents.
But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have freedom. But its freedom with limits.
I have a friend whose son is the same age as mine (14). She doesn't even allow him to go to the park alone. Rather, she'll sit on a bench, watching, while he hangs out with his friends. And she thinks I'm the worst mother on earth because DS goes to the park with his friends to play ball, or walks to a friend's house to do something or other. But I think its necessary for him to start learning how to do these things. While still calling to tell me where he's going, when he gets there, and who is home. Or with me wandering by the park, just to see who is there, in the afternoon. Freedom, with limits.
We are presumably not talking about special needs teenagers? If not, I have gotta say I am in the camp (he, he pun intended) tat says a teenaged boy or girl should be able to be left alone during the day. For heavens sake at 15 he is only a few short years away from being a man or a girl a woman. Seeing that in some communities girls get married at 18/19 I'd think that they can be left home at 15.
If I wont be able to trust my kdis at that age, I'd seriosuly wonder what I did wrong.
I always find it slightly odd when shalhevet and I totally agree.Seriously? Not leaving a 14-18 year old alone?
Trust me, 14 to 18 year olds can get into more trouble than 9 year olds. Drugs and zex, for starters. Its everywhere. And its scary for us parents.
But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have freedom. But its freedom with limits.
I have a friend whose son is the same age as mine (14). She doesn't even allow him to go to the park alone. Rather, she'll sit on a bench, watching, while he hangs out with his friends. And she thinks I'm the worst mother on earth because DS goes to the park with his friends to play ball, or walks to a friend's house to do something or other. But I think its necessary for him to start learning how to do these things. While still calling to tell me where he's going, when he gets there, and who is home. Or with me wandering by the park, just to see who is there, in the afternoon. Freedom, with limits.
Oh I agree that you need some form of supervision (like findint out where they are going, having them call etc) is important. But at 14 I was definitely allowed to be home alone or out with friends all by myself.
At 16 I was able to go out with my friends with licenses. Granted, I had responsible friends that my mother knew and could trust.
Teenagers are on the cusp of adulthood. They need to be given the freedom to learn how to function as an adult, even if they have to make some mistakes. I'm not saying throw them to the wolves, but kids do get married at 18-19. If they are watched so carefully until then, how will they possibly enter adulthood as a functioning adult?
I've met young married women who say "My mother doesn't let." Um, you are an adult woman. You and your husband have to decide.
Ah, BH, I was able to add another dimension to this thread so we can get to my goal of 100 pages...
On a more serious note, I wasn't saying never leaving teens at home, that's silly. I am saying making it a set up for a period of time, with the parents outa the house for a set amount of time, is not encouraged in our circles. What's a (young) teen to do for hours alone KNOWING no one will be coming by the house? Of course with an 18+ it's different, but at 14,15,16, I wouldn't do it.
and Merelyme, the simple problem is that I wont have internet access yet in the new place. maybe by wed/thurs I'll go rent a wireless modem for a week or something. but I'll be busy upacking tues/wed anyway.
Ah, BH, I was able to add another dimension to this thread so we can get to my goal of 100 pages...
On a more serious note, I wasn't saying never leaving teens at home, that's silly. I am saying making it a set up for a period of time, with the parents outa the house for a set amount of time, is not encouraged in our circles. What's a (young) teen to do for hours alone KNOWING no one will be coming by the house? Of course with an 18+ it's different, but at 14,15,16, I wouldn't do it.
Sorry. Still think this is nuts.
If you don't trust them, believe me, being in the same house as them will not help.
My teens know I want to know where they are, but that's it. (I don't let them go wherever they might want to either.) But it's enough for me to know Devori is at Chani's house, or Avraham is biking with Yitzhak, or Miriam and Yocheved took the bus to Bnei Brak together to go shopping.
What do they do? Talk on the phone/ meet with their friends or read a book or play a game.
There is something very, very wrong with the chinuch if you are a) so worried that your kids have access to all kinds of things you don't want them to, and b) you think you can solve that problem by being in the same house as them.
If a child has got into problems, ch"v, like drugs, alcohol, sx, internet and other electronic evils (if you consider them a problem - we do), hanging out with a "bad" crowd - then babysitting them while you cook up a four course meal in the kitchen and they are in another room is not going to help.
Shal, is your view that of the Israeli mindset, community standard or personal preference? Because where I live, that's how we are encouraged to do.
I never heard such a thing as you are suggesting.
What do you people have in your own homes that you are so scared of your children being left alone with?
The point isn't rally "in the home", as in we are afraid of them doing something "at home". It's more of a worry of having young teens unsupervised, knowing a determined amount of hours no one will have any idea of their whereabouts. If a parent is home during bein hazmanim, true, they won't know where the teen is at all times while out of the house, but they can know if they are aware. A parent should know in which shul the bochur is davening and learning, and should be able to ask a random person of that shul if he saw their bochur there, WITHOUT the bochur being aware. Parents should know where their kids are at all times, and being home alone for a fixed amount of time for a fixed amount of days/weeks, means having no idea of what the kid does, whether kosher stuff or not.
I always find it slightly odd when shalhevet and I totally agree.Seriously? Not leaving a 14-18 year old alone?
I wouldn't leave them alone in the house for a week.
wait, arent your teens alone all summer long while youre at work tamiri?
and I agree, 2 weeks is a long time for a teen to be unsupervised the entire day.
I currently have one teen, 17.5. The next runner up is 12. I have no problem leaving my boys while I work. It's ~6 hours/day. By a week, I meant going away and leaving them, not work. I trust my boys totally but still don't think it's a good idea to leave them for a long time.
