no MEZZUZAH ON DOOR

chabadnick ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 9:35 am

Ok, I need some advice from everyone.I live in a neighbourhood where people are far from frum. In fact,the rabbis family and ours are the only one. I speak to all the neighbours, one of them and I began walking together. we speak often. anyways this is a conversation we had yesterday:

lady: and you wont believe this, my husbands car got hit again, this time by a guy on a bike.
Me: well maybe you should check your mezzuzahs. You have so many health issues lately and 3 car accidents. It seems quite serious, maybe there is something wrong with them.
lady: well, I have a mezzuzah case from my grandmother on the door, its very special, but it doesnt have a scroll inside.
Me: I dont understand, you dont have a scroll inside the case. Why not?
Lady: dont tell my husband, but its not part of my budget
Me: do u have any scrolls in the house.
Lady: Its not part of the budget- too many car problems (meanwhile this lady just booked a trip to disney world.)
Me: I will arrange a mezzzuah for u
Lady:please dont do that- I will get around to it- I will be mad at u if you do.
Me: Listen, I will do it for u dont worry about it.u can pay me back later when u are ready
Lady:PLEASEN DONT///its not a priorty and I WILL SEE TO IT WHEN I AM READY!

Please tell me what I am to do in this situation. Sad

shalhevet ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 9:52 am

What can you do?

You offered more than you need to. She has the free choice to do the wrong thing, unfortunately. Crying

IMHO the more you nudge her, the more you're going to make her never want anything to do with anyone frum, ever again.

Slightly off topic:

There's a big problem in today's society that people are looking for "instant" solutions.
Now, let's say she would have agreed and you would have told her that putting a mezuza on her door would help with all her problems (or even some of them). She would have put that mezuza there, not for the mitzva, but to get her car working.

Now ... let's go two months or two years down the road. In Shamayim they were waiting for her to keep Shabbos or Kosher or TH or it would happen anyway for some other reason even if she was the biggest tzadekes in the world or worse things could have happened and this was the least problem or....or.....or...... (we have no way of knowing)
So she has a kosher lemehadrin mezuza on her door, and all the problems are still there.

So now what does she think about mezuzas, frum people or Judaism? Exploding anger

So maybe it's better she wasn't interested Sad

didan

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 9:59 am

B"H

Have the Shluchim get in touch with the Shluchim Office in NY. There's a man who is sponsoring Mezuzos for people who will commit to actually putting it up. It's completely free, so it won't affect her budget.

You can casually mention this organization in NY that wants to encourage people to get Mezuzos so they're giving them out for free.

Now everyone reading this...no, you can't just call them and get a free Mezuzah:) It has to go through a Shliach, and it's particularly for people who are just being introduced to it and don't have any on their homes.

Crayon210 ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 12:58 pm

mummyof6 wrote:

She would have put that mezuza there, not for the mitzva, but to get her car working.

So? Mitoch shelo lishma, ba lishma.

The ikar is that the person is doing the mitzvah, why does it have to be with the perfect kavanos? Confused

Do we always do mitzvos for the mitzvah? I don't think so...

Quote:

Now ... let's go two months or two years down the road. In Shamayim they were waiting for her to keep Shabbos or Kosher or TH or it would happen anyway for some other reason even if she was the biggest tzadekes in the world or worse things could have happened and this was the least problem or....or.....or...... (we have no way of knowing)
So she has a kosher lemehadrin mezuza on her door, and all the problems are still there.

But she has a kosher mezuza on her door! And that will help her in some way.

Quote:

So maybe it's better she wasn't interested Sad

I cannot believe I'm reading this. shock

↑ shalhevet ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 2:36 pm

Crayon, you took what I said out of context and deliberately skipped how I explained it.

If someone puts a mezuza up because someone else promises them that it will help, and then it doesn't, you can cause big problems. (And since we don't have access to Hashem's decisions we don't ever know if it will help someone IN THIS WORLD)

Of course if she puts up the mezuza she will get a reward in the next world, but that is not what this woman was looking for.

If you read my post properly I was saying we might lose out on getting her to do mitzvos in the long run.

I have a BT friend who had r"l a family member who was very ill. She got other family members to say Tehilim and add mitzvos SO THAT THE SICK PERSON WOULD RECOVER. Well, unfortunately they were niftar and those non-frum family members are now extremely antagonistic towards anything to do with Torah.

Quote:

Mitoch shelo lishma, ba lishma.

You don't understand this concept. This means that people do mitzvos for all sorts of ulterior motives and not just leshaim shamayim, which is a great start (e.g. come to the shiur because they serve great cookies, a child doing a mitzva to get a prize, putting a mezuza up because it looks pretty etc). It does not mean keeping a mitzva as some sort of magic spell. I have explained that this might act as a boomerang; you're taking a real gamble.
I was refering to this particular case and not to anytime someone puts up a mezuza without 100% perfect intentions.

↑ shalhevet ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 2:56 pm

I didn't say to leave her alone.
The OP had said that she tried to interest her and this woman is not interested. I just think nudging can boomerang.

Quote:

I don't see what the problem is if someone puts up a mezuzah for physical safety rather than because it's a mitzvah.

It's very different to tell someone non-frum that mezuza is a beautiful mitzva which could be a nice and relatively trouble-free thing to do, and is also known to guard people physically, than to tell them if you put a mezuza up you are not going to have any more problems with your car. (And I understood (maybe wrongly) that the OP is telling her the second version)

Ruchel ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 3:11 pm

lucky wrote:

It seems like she doesn't understand the importance of the scrolls. Maybe just some reading info about mezuzaz in general will get her to understand it.

If she's not frum, she probably won't care. Many people have mezuzos, kosher or not, just because "that's what all Jews do".

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Mon, Jul 31 2006, 3:19 pm

Of course it depends on how it's presented. I agree that obviously it's not a good idea to present a mezuzah as a promise, but perhaps as an effort toward spiritual safety that will translate into physical safety...

Does that make more sense?

Motek

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 2:32 pm

mummyof6 wrote:

I agree with you.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 2:38 pm

chabadnick wrote:

what bothers me here is the fact that $40 IS TOO MUCH MONEY FOR her,,,and then she is not worried about the spirtual welfare of her family,.,,,im sorry - I dont understand this

Well, she is secular. She does not believe in it. If someone wanted to sell you an amulet you didn't believed in, would you pay 40 dollars for it? this is the same for her.

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 2:41 pm

mummyof6 wrote:

(And I understood (maybe wrongly) that the OP is telling her the second version)

There have been many stories of people who checked mezuzos and found problems with words (especially connected to the problem-"levanecha" if a child was RL sick, for example), so it sounded like OP was going in that direction.

When she was told there was no mezuzos at all, it sounded like she tried to help by offering to arrange mezuzos.

In her version (the only one we have), it didn't sound like she made any proclamations, but just suggested that the mezuzah "would help", which is kind of neither here nor there.

↑ shalhevet

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 2:43 pm

Ruchel, exactly!

If we are trying to mekarev people at least let's try and understand where they're coming from.

And, unfortunately most people in the Western World don't even know that

Quote:

the spirtual welfare of her family

even exists. And you expect her to worry about it Scratching Head

↑ Ruchel

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 2:47 pm

Yes mommyof6. These people are not mean people who hate their family, they just don't know or don't believe in some things we know/believe in. Most would do everything they could for their family, just like us, but we just have different opinions so different attitudes and means.

I would say it is the same among frum Jews. For example, people who will wear open shoes don't do it to be untsnius or upset people who wear closed shoes, they just don't believe it is a problem. Same for cholov yisroel, and so on. (I'm not attacking anyone here, just taking examples).

JRKmommy

Tue, Aug 01 2006, 5:47 pm

If you want to reach out to her, you've got to meet her whever she's at right now. Right now, her lack of a mezuzah is an issue - but it's not an issue that she's concerned about.

Clearly, though, she does have issues that concern her - the OP mentioned health problems and the problems with the car. If you want to reach her, offer assistance on these issues. Do they need lifts if the car is being repaired? Does she need extra assistance due to health issues? That's how relationships and trust are built.

The other thing is that she may mis-interpret what you are saying, and think that you are suggesting that Hashem caused all these bad things to happen because she didn't have a proper mezuzah. If she's feeling overwhelmed, she may take this in a VERY negative way, and even feel that you are blaming her for things that she feels are bad luck. Pushing it further will lead to bad feelings.