Jews/non jews/converts

↑ Mommy912

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 9:51 pm

But they are never allowed to keep it completely. They must break it.

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 9:52 pm

And she might as well break it to take the test. :-D

In all seriousness, it's ridiculous for a non-Jew to b'shita not break Shabbos, especially to his/her detriment.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 9:54 pm

mali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

One of the girls told me she needed to talk to someone "normal" but frum anyway, not a rav, because she can't tell everything to a rav.

I hope she realizes judaism is a bit "scarier" (you said that) than her wonderful friend (who confuses halacha and feeling) puts it. don't tell her judaism is rosy and compromising. tell her it's restricting and demanding. FOR HER SAKE!!
let's get this straight: it's wonderful to keep mitzvot and have a full understanding of the beauty and the spirituality in keeping them. (I think that's what you're trying to get across, Ruchel.) However, the obligation of keeping mitzvot exists regardless of whether we understand them, like them, or see the beauty in them.
potential converts tend to see the spirituality in judaism, and there's plenty of that. they tend to overlook the hard part of being jewish. it is our role to point it out to them before they take that fateful step.
once someone has converted, the torah tells us she is a jew just like any other jew. and we know her soul was at matan torah together with the rest of the jewish souls. we also have an additional commandment to love converts.
but let's not confuse before and after.

If you knew me you would know I'm so not the kind to say Judaism is rosy and even less compromising. If someone wants a politically correct vision of Judaism, he doesn't ask me - believe me I've been called a fanatic or a shtetl girl many times. Not that I am, but the people around me are a lot less.
I make sure the converts I'm talking to know they'll have to keep things like shabbes, kashrus, th and tsnius. I would refuse to help someone who would tell me he doesn't want to keep that after the conversion because I don't want to be responsible of a fake Jew.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 9:55 pm

Mommy912 wrote:

Possibly because they have a Jewish father or other Jewish relatives.

But a non Jewish child can't be accepted in a Jewish school, right?

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 9:56 pm

Depends on the school.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 9:57 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Depends on the school.

wow! I didn't know...

↑ mali ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 9:58 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

Depends on the school.

wow! I didn't know...

I didn't either.

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:01 pm

I have heard that there are Chabad schools that accept children of Jewish men.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:01 pm

mali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

Depends on the school.

wow! I didn't know...

I didn't either.

actually I thought it was the norm to ask a bris certificate and things like that, not to mention the schools who only accept moms with a haircovering and no tv.

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:01 pm

I've never heard of a bris certificate.

↑ Ruchel ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:03 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

I've never heard of a bris certificate.

It's a paper given by the mohel as far as I know. I've never seen one personally as I have no children and no brothers.

↑ mali ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:07 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

I have heard that there are Chabad schools that accept children of Jewish men.

there are some schools abroad that don't want to make an issue of the child's true jewish identity because they don't want to turn off the real jews, who don't know much about being jewish. many of them are in the former soviet union. I've spoken to an adorable and intelligent romanian convert who learnt, and even taught in a jewish school in her hometown before she knew she wasn't a jew. she told me that less than 10% of the "jewish" kids in her town are halachically jewish. Sad

but, are there "regular" jewish schools that accept non-jewish children?

↑ gryp ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:08 pm

Crayon, you must not have made a bris yet Wink

I've got two bris certificates sitting in my house.

↑ mali ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:09 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

I've never heard of a bris certificate.

It's a paper given by the mohel as far as I know. I've never seen one personally as I have no children and no brothers.

interesting! none of my sons got a certificate. I'm quite sure they are circumcised, though!

↑ Crayon210 ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:09 pm

mali-I don't know, I only know of the FSU cases.

GR-we've had a number of brissin in our family, I never heard of the bris certificate. I'll ask around. :-D

↑ gryp ↓

Tue, Jun 27 2006, 10:14 pm

I know for sure that Rabbi Shain in CH gives them.

↑ shalhevet ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2006, 3:12 am

mali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

I've never heard of a bris certificate.

It's a paper given by the mohel as far as I know. I've never seen one personally as I have no children and no brothers.

interesting! none of my sons got a certificate. I'm quite sure they are circumcised, though!

same here!

sarahd ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2006, 4:28 am

mali wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

I have heard that there are Chabad schools that accept children of Jewish men.

there are some schools abroad that don't want to make an issue of the child's true jewish identity because they don't want to turn off the real jews, who don't know much about being jewish.

Interesting, because in the school I taught in in Ukraine, we had a problem with parents who bitterly resented the fact that we accepted children of Jewish mothers and non-Jewish fathers; they felt that the mothers had betrayed Judaism by marrying out and should have no right to enjoy the benefits of being Jewish by being permitted to enroll in a Jewish school.

Chabad's position in accepting non-Jewish children into their schools is very controversial, you know, but it certainly increases enrollment!

Raisin ↓

Wed, Jun 28 2006, 5:39 am

Quote:

Chabad's position in accepting non-Jewish children into their schools is very controversial, you know, but it certainly increases enrollment!

I don't think all chabad Shluchim accept non-Jews in their schools. Maybe a few do, but I'm pretty sure its the exception, rather than the rule. It is certainly something to consult a Rav about. I know schools will take kids if the mother is in the process of conversion.

I know the school where I teach (not chabad) has lost jewish kids due to this policy (of not taking non-Jews).

Rifky

↑ sarahd

Wed, Jun 28 2006, 5:47 am

Maybe, but since the halacha is that you may not teach non-Jews Torah, and the school is adhering to halacha, they're doing the right thing.

"Mir mussen tun, der Aibishter muss oftun" - we have to do what's right and leave it up to Hashem to take care of the rest.