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-> Working Women
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TwinsMommy
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 Thu, Jun 03 2010, 10:28 am
Tamiri, we're one of those families---- we both work and don't leech.
We're in a lot of debt (is it leeching to take out student loans?  so we met with a woman in our area who helps people find resources available to them--- what I didn't realize was that she was essentially pro-leech. When she figured out that both of us working meant that we make too much money for benefits, she told me I should stop working. I looked at her like she had 3 horns growing out of her head. My life would be so much easier if I stopped working and started depending, and apparently that's what the American government wants, but I'm not doing it. My kids are going to see me work for a living. We need a certain amount of money to provide for ourselves. If my husband can't make that amount on his own then by golly, we're a team. Having said that, I work part time and set my own hours and I'm with my kids when they're not in school.
This summer my husband won't be working and since I'll be the sole income I guess maybe we would qualify for all the government stuff but I'm not going to bother applying since if all goes well he'll be working again by September. Why should my neighbor's tax dollars go to me when my husband and I are both able bodied?
If my husband made an income that could support our family then yes, I would stop working. But until then, I very happily do my part.
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louche
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 11:54 am
| saw50st8 wrote: | | Tuition is a luxury that you need to decide if you can afford. |
I disagree. giving one's children a religious education is a basic responsibility of every jewish parent. unless you can give your kids a Jewish education equivalent to what they get in Hebrew day school--which mothers can do for their sons only if they've learned Talmud--then homeschooling for religious studies is not an option.
I know very few people who consider a jewish education to be a luxury--and those who do tend to be, on average, more affluent and less observant.
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saw50st8
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 11:57 am
| louche wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | Tuition is a luxury that you need to decide if you can afford. |
I disagree. giving one's children a religious education is a basic responsibility of every jewish parent. unless you can give your kids a Jewish education equivalent to what they get in Hebrew day school--which mothers can do for their sons only if they've learned Talmud--then homeschooling for religious studies is not an option.
I know very few people who consider a jewish education to be a luxury--and those who do tend to be, on average, more affluent and less observant. |
Hiring a tutor for a few hours a day is MUCH cheaper than sending your kid to a private school.
Yes, tuition is a luxury. A Jewish education is not. You could argue that perhaps for a BT family that isn't well versed in halacha Day school is NOT a luxury. But for your average orthodox family it is.
We get these things confused a lot.
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Merrymom
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 12:45 pm
| saw50st8 wrote: | | louche wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | Tuition is a luxury that you need to decide if you can afford. |
I disagree. giving one's children a religious education is a basic responsibility of every jewish parent. unless you can give your kids a Jewish education equivalent to what they get in Hebrew day school--which mothers can do for their sons only if they've learned Talmud--then homeschooling for religious studies is not an option.
I know very few people who consider a jewish education to be a luxury--and those who do tend to be, on average, more affluent and less observant. |
Hiring a tutor for a few hours a day is MUCH cheaper than sending your kid to a private school.
Yes, tuition is a luxury. A Jewish education is not. You could argue that perhaps for a BT family that isn't well versed in halacha Day school is NOT a luxury. But for your average orthodox family it is.
We get these things confused a lot. |
Would you rely on just one person to convey everything that you believe in? The Torah is so complex I would very much hesitate to leave it all up to one person's hashkafos and intelligence.
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saw50st8
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 12:47 pm
| Merrymom wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | louche wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | Tuition is a luxury that you need to decide if you can afford. |
I disagree. giving one's children a religious education is a basic responsibility of every jewish parent. unless you can give your kids a Jewish education equivalent to what they get in Hebrew day school--which mothers can do for their sons only if they've learned Talmud--then homeschooling for religious studies is not an option.
I know very few people who consider a jewish education to be a luxury--and those who do tend to be, on average, more affluent and less observant. |
Hiring a tutor for a few hours a day is MUCH cheaper than sending your kid to a private school.
Yes, tuition is a luxury. A Jewish education is not. You could argue that perhaps for a BT family that isn't well versed in halacha Day school is NOT a luxury. But for your average orthodox family it is.
We get these things confused a lot. |
Would you rely on just one person to convey everything that you believe in? The Torah is so complex I would very much hesitate to leave it all up to one person's hashkafos and intelligence. |
So change tutors every so often.
But that's not really the point. The point is that its a LUXURY to send your kid to private school. No matter how much anyone cries otherwise.
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small bean
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 12:51 pm
| saw50st8 wrote: | | Merrymom wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | louche wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | Tuition is a luxury that you need to decide if you can afford. |
I disagree. giving one's children a religious education is a basic responsibility of every jewish parent. unless you can give your kids a Jewish education equivalent to what they get in Hebrew day school--which mothers can do for their sons only if they've learned Talmud--then homeschooling for religious studies is not an option.
I know very few people who consider a jewish education to be a luxury--and those who do tend to be, on average, more affluent and less observant. |
Hiring a tutor for a few hours a day is MUCH cheaper than sending your kid to a private school.
Yes, tuition is a luxury. A Jewish education is not. You could argue that perhaps for a BT family that isn't well versed in halacha Day school is NOT a luxury. But for your average orthodox family it is.
We get these things confused a lot. |
Would you rely on just one person to convey everything that you believe in? The Torah is so complex I would very much hesitate to leave it all up to one person's hashkafos and intelligence. |
So change tutors every so often.
But that's not really the point. The point is that its a LUXURY to send your kid to private school. No matter how much anyone cries otherwise. | saw50st8
I agree with you.
most things are luxuries.
all of you who say private schooling is not a luxury - I think you just mean it's something that you don't want to give up. for example - I do not want to give up my car no matter what - I'd rather work 3 jobs (if I had to) that doesn't make my car not a luxury.
sending your kid to private school is a luxury that most of us want to do.
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Merrymom
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 12:57 pm
| saw50st8 wrote: | | Merrymom wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | louche wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | Tuition is a luxury that you need to decide if you can afford. |
I disagree. giving one's children a religious education is a basic responsibility of every jewish parent. unless you can give your kids a Jewish education equivalent to what they get in Hebrew day school--which mothers can do for their sons only if they've learned Talmud--then homeschooling for religious studies is not an option.
I know very few people who consider a jewish education to be a luxury--and those who do tend to be, on average, more affluent and less observant. |
Hiring a tutor for a few hours a day is MUCH cheaper than sending your kid to a private school.
Yes, tuition is a luxury. A Jewish education is not. You could argue that perhaps for a BT family that isn't well versed in halacha Day school is NOT a luxury. But for your average orthodox family it is.
We get these things confused a lot. |
Would you rely on just one person to convey everything that you believe in? The Torah is so complex I would very much hesitate to leave it all up to one person's hashkafos and intelligence. |
So change tutors every so often.
But that's not really the point. The point is that its a LUXURY to send your kid to private school. No matter how much anyone cries otherwise. |
I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Years ago when the general population was very uneducated and living in ghettos, it probably didn't matter. In this day and age you need to provide your children with a very strong Jewish education, secular education, and a good group of friends. In the world we live in if kids don't have this very strong support system it's unlikely that they'd continue being frum. For example kids growing up in little hick towns with next to no frum Jewish dayschool system and friends are much less likely to follow in their parents ways, at least that's what I've seen. Sarah Schenirer certainly saw this and because of it your average BY girl is much more educated and idealistic than her great-grandparents were. This is why I believe every frum school has an obligation to take in a certain percentage of kids whose parents cannot afford to pay the tuition.
Also, remember the famous story of Hillel who almost died on the roof because he couldn't afford to pay to get into the Beis Medrash. After that story I believe they did away with charging people to come and learn.
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small bean
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:11 pm
| Merrymom wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | Merrymom wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | louche wrote: | | saw50st8 wrote: | | Tuition is a luxury that you need to decide if you can afford. |
I disagree. giving one's children a religious education is a basic responsibility of every jewish parent. unless you can give your kids a Jewish education equivalent to what they get in Hebrew day school--which mothers can do for their sons only if they've learned Talmud--then homeschooling for religious studies is not an option.
I know very few people who consider a jewish education to be a luxury--and those who do tend to be, on average, more affluent and less observant. |
Hiring a tutor for a few hours a day is MUCH cheaper than sending your kid to a private school.
Yes, tuition is a luxury. A Jewish education is not. You could argue that perhaps for a BT family that isn't well versed in halacha Day school is NOT a luxury. But for your average orthodox family it is.
We get these things confused a lot. |
Would you rely on just one person to convey everything that you believe in? The Torah is so complex I would very much hesitate to leave it all up to one person's hashkafos and intelligence. |
So change tutors every so often.
But that's not really the point. The point is that its a LUXURY to send your kid to private school. No matter how much anyone cries otherwise. |
I'm sorry but I totally disagree. Years ago when the general population was very uneducated and living in ghettos, it probably didn't matter. In this day and age you need to provide your children with a very strong Jewish education, secular education, and a good group of friends. In the world we live in if kids don't have this very strong support system it's unlikely that they'd continue being frum. For example kids growing up in little hick towns with next to no frum Jewish dayschool system and friends are much less likely to follow in their parents ways, at least that's what I've seen. Sarah Schenirer certainly saw this and because of it your average BY girl is much more educated and idealistic than her great-grandparents were. This is why I believe every frum school has an obligation to take in a certain percentage of kids whose parents cannot afford to pay the tuition.
Also, remember the famous story of Hillel who almost died on the roof because he couldn't afford to pay to get into the Beis Medrash. After that story I believe they did away with charging people to come and learn. | Merrymom - because you feel that your children NEED to have a jewish education -you therefor have to come up with a way to pay for this LUXURY. the fact that something is really important to you doesnt make it a necessity. we all have different luxuries that we feel is important and will somehow come up with the money for it.... very few ppl only live on necessities.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:11 pm
How do woman manage by working fulltime?
When do you cook, clean, make arrangments for yourself etc?
What about the kids?
Are they ok without a mother around?
Aren't you to tired to look after them after a whole day of work?
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small bean
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:13 pm
| amother wrote: | How do woman manage by working fulltime?
When do you cook, clean, make arrangments for yourself etc?
What about the kids?
Are they ok without a mother around?
Aren't you to tired to look after them after a whole day of work? | I work full time and I manage just fine.
my kids are fine -well adjusted happy kids.
I clean my house and cook and things get done...
I play with my kids when I'm home...
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saw50st8
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:20 pm
| amother wrote: | How do woman manage by working fulltime?
When do you cook, clean, make arrangments for yourself etc?
What about the kids?
Are they ok without a mother around?
Aren't you to tired to look after them after a whole day of work? |
My kids are in daycare from 7am to 6pm.
We cook simple, quick, easy food (mainly from scratch, but not 100%). My house is not as clean as I would like it to be. I spend a good chunk of sunday cleaning.
My kids love daycare - its play, play play for them. They love us also. They are fine.
I wish I could be at home with my kids. But with tuition so high, its impossible. So I sacrifice for them.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:38 pm
I disagree with those of you who think your kids ar ok while you'r working full time.They may seem happy playing but they need your hashpa'ah. These childrn have a hard time adjusting in life bc they never see how a frum adult deals with certain situations.
Don't get m wrong. I work, full time. More actually-- 48 hrs a week. But I regret this very much. I realize that it is about quantity time to a certain respct. I try hard to mak our time quality but I know I may suffer later. So I recently cut down my hrs to 3 days a week. I feel every woman should work at least a little for many reasons:
firstl, she may apprciate her hubby more
next, he will appreciat her more
it will make her a happier mother who looks forward to seeing the kids at the end of the day
it will kep her focused
decades ago we were very busy w housework. But today with all the machines a woman can become idle and focus on the wrong things.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:38 pm
I disagree with those of you who think your kids ar ok while you'r working full time.They may seem happy playing but they need your hashpa'ah. These childrn have a hard time adjusting in life bc they never see how a frum adult deals with certain situations.
Don't get m wrong. I work, full time. More actually-- 48 hrs a week. But I regret this very much. I realize that it is about quantity time to a certain respct. I try hard to mak our time quality but I know I may suffer later. So I recently cut down my hrs to 3 days a week. I feel every woman should work at least a little for many reasons:
firstl, she may apprciate her hubby more
next, he will appreciat her more
it will make her a happier mother who looks forward to seeing the kids at the end of the day
it will kep her focused
decades ago we were very busy w housework. But today with all the machines a woman can become idle and focus on the wrong things.
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amother
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:39 pm
I disagree with those of you who think your kids ar ok while you'r working full time.They may seem happy playing but they need your hashpa'ah. These childrn have a hard time adjusting in life bc they never see how a frum adult deals with certain situations.
Don't get m wrong. I work, full time. More actually-- 48 hrs a week. But I regret this very much. I realize that it is about quantity time to a certain respct. I try hard to mak our time quality but I know I may suffer later. So I recently cut down my hrs to 3 days a week. I feel every woman should work at least a little for many reasons:
firstl, she may apprciate her hubby more
next, he will appreciat her more
it will make her a happier mother who looks forward to seeing the kids at the end of the day
it will kep her focused
decades ago we were very busy w housework. But today with all the machines a woman can become idle and focus on the wrong things.
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ora_43
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:39 pm
| Fox wrote: | However, I have come to believe that kids need to see their parents work! My own mother worked full-time, and DH's mother was a SAHM. Ninety percent of our shalom bayis problems result from this. My DH has household standards are are consistent with a SAHM. That doesn't mean he wasn't expected to help at home as he was growing up; simply that he expects a lifestyle in which there is a full-time homemaker juggling all the little day-to-day tasks as well as delegating labor.
Since we cannot afford for me to be a SAHM, this causes a lot of tension. I feel put upon because of his expectations, and he doesn't realize his expectations are unreasonable. Truthfully, I expect that one of my "crazy" questions about shidduchim for my DDs will be about the potential chosson's mother's work. I really don't want to put my daughters into a no-win situation where their husbands will (a) be unable to afford for them to stay at home; and (b) not realize that life without a SAHM is a whole different kettle of fish! |
Why deliberately have a worse lifestyle just to keep expectations low? Isn't that kind of like deliberately earning less so that your kids won't get used to being able to eat their favorite foods, or wear nice shoes, etc, and then fight with their future spouses about it?
(I'm talking about your theory - I get that you personally can't just quit your job.)
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saw50st8
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 1:59 pm
| amother wrote: | I disagree with those of you who think your kids ar ok while you'r working full time.They may seem happy playing but they need your hashpa'ah. These childrn have a hard time adjusting in life bc they never see how a frum adult deals with certain situations.
Don't get m wrong. I work, full time. More actually-- 48 hrs a week. But I regret this very much. I realize that it is about quantity time to a certain respct. I try hard to mak our time quality but I know I may suffer later. So I recently cut down my hrs to 3 days a week. I feel every woman should work at least a little for many reasons:
firstl, she may apprciate her hubby more
next, he will appreciat her more
it will make her a happier mother who looks forward to seeing the kids at the end of the day
it will kep her focused
decades ago we were very busy w housework. But today with all the machines a woman can become idle and focus on the wrong things. |
My mother worked full time when I was growing up and I grew up just fine 
I would definitely prefer to be a SAHP - I found it MUCH easier being a SAHM while I was out on maternity leave for almost 6 months. But someone has to pay the bills. If I quit my job, we couldn't really afford tuition so we would need a massive scholarship. I'm not willing to do that - its my responsibility to pay for them, so I work hard.
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smilingmom
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Thu, Jun 03 2010, 3:00 pm
| amother wrote: | How do woman manage by working fulltime?
When do you cook, clean, make arrangments for yourself etc?
What about the kids?
Are they ok without a mother around?
Aren't you to tired to look after them after a whole day of work? |
Duh!!!
I am married, My DH does all the shopping, cooking & cleaning (except for laundry).
He does Hebrew Homework with the kids, I do English H.W.
When the weather is hot, he has a cold fruit smoothy waiting for me. That gives me energy to handle the kids.
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bashinda
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Fri, Jun 04 2010, 1:40 am
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smilingmom: I think she's asking more like, what do you do if your husband isn't available to do those things. You sound like you're the primary breadwinner and your husband is the stay at home parent. Do you really think that's the case for a majority of women who work out of the home?
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saw50st8
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Fri, Jun 04 2010, 3:17 am
Last night I worked from 8 am to 9 pm and when I came hom at 10 pm I went out grocery shopping. I didn't get to sleep until almost midnight and I have an infant who woke up a few times at night. I woke up for the day at 5:30.
I'm tired. But I love my family so its all worth it.
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Tamiri
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Fri, Jun 04 2010, 3:21 am
| saw50st8 wrote: | Last night I worked from 8 am to 9 pm and when I came hom at 10 pm I went out grocery shopping. I didn't get to sleep until almost midnight and I have an infant who woke up a few times at night. I woke up for the day at 5:30.
I'm tired. But I love my family so its all worth it. | This isn't the type of life I would ever envision being "worth it". Kudos to you for making it work.
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