Am I allowed to be menachem avel to someone I dated?

amother

Smokey

Thu, Mar 18 2010, 2:49 pm

I dated someone seriously, but we broke up, and I married someone else. He is sitting shiva for a parent. Should I call, send a card, or do nothing?

Last edited by amother on Wed, Dec 30 2015, 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total

mominlkwd

Thu, Mar 18 2010, 3:08 pm

It depends. 9 dates while alot in the jewish world is not really that long. Also if he is really frum he might think it's strange. It depends how seriously you two felt. If you think he would appreciate it I don't see why it's wrong. I know it's kind of a wishy washy answer but it really is about how you think he would take it during his difficult time.

(also I'm assuming he's still single. If he's married I would probably say don't go)

Mama Bear ↓

Thu, Mar 18 2010, 3:59 pm

A good rule of thumb when trying to decide if you should be menachem avel someone is to ask yourself whether you would attend their child's wedding. If you dont think youre close enough to atten dtheir wedding (for dancing , not even for meal!) then think whether you should be menachem avel or not...

octopus

Thu, Mar 18 2010, 5:06 pm

I'm seriously confused. you only know him within the context of shidduch dating? If so, I think it's really weird to be menachem avel. If he was a neighbor or co-worker or something, and you went out with him, but you knew him in a different context , then it is not so strange. understand what I'm trying to say?

mimivan

Thu, Mar 18 2010, 5:17 pm

Mama Bear wrote:

do you mean go if you were invited or if they would invite you to their child's wedding in the first place
(there is a slight difference)
I'm asking because I've often wondered if I am close enough to someone to be menachem avel...I mean someone might be happy to see someone they didn't expect there...on the other hand others wouldn't want people they aren't close with to be there...

oh, about the OP's question, No way, for the reason Chocolate Moose gave, first and second, no not for someone you dated...

shabbatiscoming

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 1:40 am

chocolate moose wrote:

Since when does a woman be menachem avel a man ?

CM, in some circles this is a very normal thing to do. people are menachem avel no matter the gender.

shalhevet

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 1:59 am

I think whether or not someone is menachem avel depends on the circumstances, and would probably also be in cases where you wouldn't go to a wedding eg if ch"v there are tragic circumstances then IMHO it is appropriate to go even if you know such a person slightly. I was at a shiva Lo aleinu for a young child a few years ago, and a rebbetzin was there who actually said to the mother that she doesn't know her, but felt she had to come.

In this case, go unless:
1. As someone already wrote, you only know him through dating. If he is also a work colleague, neighbour etc you can ignore the previous connection.
2. You or he still have some feelings, however slight, for each other.
In any case I would go with your husband, even if he doesn't know the avel.

ray family

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 4:27 am

dating in the shidduch world is very different than secular dating.
my sister's ex bf's mother just passed away. there was no question about whether she would be menachem avel or not. it was uncomfortable for her (he's now married) but he also expressed his sincere gratitude as my sister knew his mother better than his wife does.
his friends told her afterward that it really meant a lot to him.

you never know.
s/t you need to do s/t that might be uncomfortable for you for the sake of s/o else.

freidasima

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 4:34 am

Wow, what discussion. I would be menachem ovel no matter what. It's a mitzvo. A big one., up there with chessed shel emes.
No thinking about it twice. Do it quick and to the point, but I can't see why it would be wrong. A Jewish person is sitting shiva. A frum person.
For me the only question is of a woman being menachem ovel to a man which is not always done in many frum circles.
When I sat for my father, we were only women (mother and I) sitting. Many men came, those I worked with, those that dh worked with, rabbonim who were my father's friend etc. The men often came, sat far away for a few minutes, got up and said "hamokom yinachem" and left. I was very moved. If there were other men there they talked to them for a while and not to us. Understandable. Some talked to my mother but not to me, as she was an "old lady" but I was young and it wasn't acceptable for them to talk to me.
Depends on the circles. But that it would be a problem because you dated him? Not in my world. Mitzvo comes before social convention. Don't think so much. Do.

Pooh

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 7:34 am

this past year my husband found out that the mother of a girl he dated (when they were 17- he is now 33) passed away. they grew up together, and my husband was really struck by the news. so he had the same question as u (although they for sure knew each other more than u knew this guy) and in the end he didnt call- also because at this most sensitive time for an avel, they crave compassion and love from family and friends, and hearing my husband may have awaken old feelings (only because of what she was going through) and thats just not good for anyone. He did think of the idea of having me call her and pay shiva on his behalf which gets the message delivered while minimizing wierdness and inappropriateness - but he never gave me the number.

busydev

Fri, Mar 19 2010, 10:10 am

if you have no shaychis other then 9 shidduch dates, you should def def not go.

if you knew his parent or had to do with him then maybe- depending how awkward you and he would feel. Otherwise dont go.