high school discipline

amother ↓

Wed, May 06 2009, 1:42 am

I teach in a highschool, and most of the class behaves most of the time.
The problem is a few girls tend to disturb consistently. They aren't scared of authority,
me or any of the principals. The parents are told when the students misbehave, but it
doesn't seem to be working. I always said I would never send a student out of class
b/c I think it's counter productive... but now I found myself occassionally sending out
certain girls b/c I don't know what else to do.
Whats some tactics that might help? I tried discussing with them -if things are to hard / easy etc.
what we can do to make thing easier for them... didn't get much response...
And firmly told them I won't handle their behavior. Nothing seems to be working.
Most of the trouble kids are either below average in the subject matter, or completely uninterested.
They are ruining it for the rest of the class.
Please advise!!!

nicole81 ↓

Wed, May 06 2009, 2:03 am

do you know what their interest are outside of your class? or their talents? is their a way to tie these into your lesson to get them engaged?

you say in your post that the parents are told when they're misbehaving. are you the one calling them? if not, you should. and I would go as far as to request the parents come up for a face to face meeting with you and their child.

also, is their no suspension process in your school for persistent misbehavior?

ok something else that I have done is had a misbehaving student come up with 4-5 things they can improve on in my class (personal goals.) then we created a daily chart that maps his progress in those areas. we made a special deal that if he gets checked off in each area 20 out of 25 times, he gets 10 points added to his final grade. some other students might respond to different types of rewards.

a similar idea is that in my room I have a chart of my student's names. they earn bonus points for various things throughout the week. I have a deal with two students that every time they curse in class, they get -1. but every day they act appropriately in class, they get +2. they have been very motivated to earn extra credit in this way that no other students can.

finally, something else I have done was take loud, obnoxious students, and allow them to teach the class for a period. they had no problem learning an extra topic since they were getting this massive amount of power. then when they got up to teach, the class ate them alive! it gave the students a lot of perspective. but anyway, sometimes giving students a leadership role in a classroom will increase their investment in the work and in your class.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, May 06 2009, 2:15 am

Grin,
They do not care about their grades, nor do they complete assignments, if they were given one
they probably wouldn't complete it.
In this school the students who misbehave must write a report about what they did and why. then the teacher writes her own report and both are sent to the parents. Grades are then deducted from their report card.
This keeps many girls in line -except for these few girls who seem to be fazed by nothing.
I agree sending out is counter-productive, I only do it so atleast the other girls left in class could concentrate. I know it's far from ideal -that's why I'm asking for ideas.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, May 06 2009, 2:26 am

Nicole81,
I do try to give all kinds of projects to allow the girls to use their talents -but most of that is done out of class. My subject makes it difficult to include many talents in regular classroom setting. For example -how can u make use of a dancing talent in a Chumash class on a regular basis?

The reward / bonus system wouldn't help for these girls b/c they don't care about their grades. (2 of them are doing very poorly in all areas and seemed to have given up even before I started the year. I tried very hard to help them, as I do with all weak students, but they showed no intrest). I don't know what else would motivate them. They are teenagers -so to old for candy or sticker Smile

.

The teaching idea is an good one. I could see it working for 1 out of my 3 problem students, but the other 2 just wouldn't agree -it would be hard for them to prepare and with their personalities they prob. wouldn't want to do it.

The school only suspends for 'major issues', and unfortunately for my sake -talking and chutzpa are not enough of a cause.

The fact that the principal is not very intimidating to the girls also contributes to the prob., as they have no qualms about being sent to her / or speaking to her.

As for the parents -it's a little trick, bec. the students board in a dorm, and their parents are across the country. Speaking on the phone is difficult when you can't see them and see their reactions. Also, being that they don't know me at all, it's my word against their daughters...

Any hope???

↑ nicole81 ↓

Wed, May 06 2009, 2:44 am

amother wrote:

hmmm maybe an interpretive dance on the parsha? if any of them are artistic, it would be easy to incorporate that into class.

Quote:

The reward / bonus system wouldn't help for these girls b/c they don't care about their grades. (2 of them are doing very poorly in all areas and seemed to have given up even before I started the year. I tried very hard to help them, as I do with all weak students, but they showed no intrest). I don't know what else would motivate them. They are teenagers -so to old for candy or sticker

I guess are students are different because let me tell you, I can get my 14-16 year old students to do just about anything for some cookies! but anyhow, what about having them come up with just one personal goal? or trying this with just one student and not all three? so many times these kids are used to being "disciplined" that they are immune to it. but if you try approaching them in a non threatening way... like "I love having you in my class and I can tell you have loads of potential. I really care about you and it hurts me to see you acting this way... etc" have them come up with one thing they can work on. not academic, just personal. if they are coming up with their own goals they might really become invested in them.

do they ever give you a single assignment? many times students act out because they are very low skills and have never succeeded in school. sometimes all it takes is one small success to reel them back in. if they give you anything at all, find a way to give them 100% and then praise the heck out of them. I've had chronic misbehaving students (I'm talking about gang kids!) start turning around just because they got a 90 on something.

I can sympathize with your situation... I teach inner city kids in brooklyn and it's no walk in the park. I just find that approaching everything with a positive, caring attitude helps a lot. but of course, there's no one answer and you might have to try a different approach every day until something works.

btw what exactly do they do in class that is disruptive?

↑ amother ↓

Wed, May 06 2009, 2:56 am

thanks for all your advice,
definately gives me alot to think about,
I better head to bed -or I wont be able to keep my eyes open
let alone teach tomorrow!

when I say they disrupt -I mean cinsistent LOUD talking, singing, humming...
usually I stop such disruptions by looking straight at the student, walking toward their
desk, calling their name etc. these students either stop for 2 min. and then continue,
or out right ignore me. I politely but firmly tell them its difficult for me to teach, or its difficult
for your classmates to learn... doesn't seem to help.

I will think about your ideas and see if I can somehow incorporate them. thanks!

TzenaRena

Wed, May 06 2009, 2:56 am

although I'm not a high school teacher, I subbed a few times. I think the problem is that you have no support from the hanhala. No suggestions other than can you meet with your principal to map out a strategy between the two of you, that she will stand behind ? However, I'm thinking that you need to be somewhat established in the school before you venture this. As a new teacher I would be hesitant to involve the principal just yet.

nicole81 wrote:

but anyway, sometimes giving students a leadership role in a classroom will increase their investment in the work and in your class.

I have a problem with this - how fair is that ? The quiet, good students that don't disturb don't get recognition, while the offenders do. Could that cause resentment on the part of some girls who may feel they don't get much attention, and OTOH the teacher seems to favor the noisy, disrespectful girls?

↑ nicole81

Wed, May 06 2009, 3:09 am

TzenaRena wrote:

nicole81 wrote:

but anyway, sometimes giving students a leadership role in a classroom will increase their investment in the work and in your class.

what you're saying could definitely occur. however, there isn't only one leadership role a student could take in the classroom. for example I have a before class board monitor, an after class board monitor, a calculator monitor, a regent's book monitor, textbook monitor, seating manager, bulletin board manager, party planner, etc. not everyone is going to want responsibility, but I make sure I have enough roles in my classroom for as many students that want one. and as far as students preparing and teaching lessons, I make teams of three and they rotate each time.

but oftentimes teachers will overlook those misbehaving students when giving rewards or leadership roles, simply because of their behavior. but this shouldn't be the case. because simply handing them some responsibility might significantly help the issue. in many cases, students act out in class because they have no control. they can't control what school they go to, the rules at home, etc. but they can chose to control (or not to control) themselves in class. they like the power that disrupting the class gives to them. it's usually a good approach to try to transfer that control into something positive.

↑ amother ↓

Wed, May 06 2009, 10:13 am

Well, here's my theory . . . I try and reach the girls with issues sometime during the beginning of the school year. If I can reach out to them and modify for their needs in a quiet way then maybe I can get them to help me by behaving in class. However, this year I finally realized that completely turning my entire class upside down so that I could MAYBE get 1 or 2 girls to behave for MAYBE 5 minutes just wasn't worth it. Why should the good girls be the korbanos? Why should they have to suffer?

If you can find a way to get the girls to behave, great, otherwise, if it's really only 1 or 2, don't sacrifice your class for them. Send them out with work that needs to be done (and is appropriate for their level) and teach YOUR class.

I sent 3 girls out (and I didn't used to be a sender-outter) last week and had THE MOST DELIGHTFUL class EVER. I had girls come up to me after class and tell me how nice class was that day and could we please always have class like that. *I* was a much better teacher that day not having to spend so much time on discipline or constantly going over to teach while standing by those girls.

I really do many things in my class to reach many types of girls with many issues, but I refuse (and this is a recent thing) to let 2 or 3 girls completely ruin my class (and my day).

ValleyMom

Wed, May 06 2009, 10:26 am

Hmmm... Te Ivrit teacher at our school was having major discipline issues with an 8th grade boy and I sugeested the following.
"I believe you are a really terrific person with a lively disposition. However, you are clearly NOT enjoying my class. Life is too short to be forced to be in a situation that is clearly making you miserable but you do need to complete work in my class in order to get a grade. How do you feel about taking the class as an independent study class. I will give you a packet every Monday with assignments and work to be competed during the course of the week. Simply turn in the previous packet every Monday and I will supply you with a new packet. This way you won't be tortured by sitting in a class that clearly is making you miserable."

After a week or two this person will probably be asking if she can come back.
The boy did it for a few weeks and acknowledged it was lonely being isolated and doing the work AND he needed help and the teacher was available less frequently than in the actual classroom.

Good Luck!

↑ amother

Thu, May 07 2009, 3:27 am

I once asked advice from a teacher that was feared by the girls. The only problem was that her tactics didn't fit with my personality.

I really feel for you. I remember when I was in your situation: teaching chol to 12th girls during the year the school was putting on their show extravanza.... Banging head

I found out that I had an inordinate number of the problem students and as a first year teacher this was gehinom. The menachelet admitted to me that what they really needed was a baby-sitter and that I was probably over educated for them. So why didn't somebody explain that to me from the onset? (ie to ignore the standards set in the teacher manual. ) Rolling Eyes

ShiningThrough

Thu, May 07 2009, 5:21 am

Well, I must admit that it could be MY daughter you're talking about, OP. And I guess I'll be the first one on this thread to offer another perspective not yet touched on here... Suggest to the parents that they take their child to be tested for AD(H)D because of the difficulty maintaining focus and the disruptiveness (impulsiveness)... and further, suggest counselling for trying to discover and open up whatever it is that's making her stuck (emotionally). It also may be lucrative to check if there's any learning disabilities going on and to hook the girls up with a tutor (through the school) to improve their skills/scores on a 1 on 1 basis.

It's very tough as the mother of a teenager like you describe to try to motivate my daughter. I want to see her enthusiastic, lively, eating up life, trying new (safe) things... I hate to see her so stuck. But the avenues I've suggested to you are the same one's we're exploring now for my daughter and I think it makes sense to check them out.