Camp Moshava | Imamother

chavamom ↓

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 9:00 am

From the kids in the neighborhood that go there, not only can they wear pants, they can wear long shorts. If this is not OK with your family, you might want to keep looking. Depending on the age, there is a lot of peer-pressure to conform to that norm. You can PM me if you want.

Seraph ↓

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 9:11 am

Which moshava is it? I went to camp stone, a moshava with a different name.
There, most of the girls did wear pants most of the time, but occasionally you'd find a frummy or two who didnt. I think in my bunks, out of 25 or so girls I was with over the 3 years I went, maybe 3 or 4 wore only skirts.
Counselors generally are more frum and DO wear skirts generally.

PS. I dont know where you're holding religiously now, or how old your daughter is, but when I went, there was LOTS of pressure from the girls in the bunk to misbehave with boys. Not just talking, or going out or even just holding hands, but serious misbehavior.

cassandra

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 9:11 am

Also from people who I know who went/go there (the PA one, my impression is that the other ones might be slightly different in terms of tenor), shorts that cover the knees is the "thing" there. They are actually pretty strict about enforcing the below the knees thing too. I would imagine that there are a handful of girls who wear only skirts but I think that if your daughter is at the age where she would feel very self-conscious about dressing differently then maybe look for a better suited camp. How do her friends dress and where are they going to camp?

Barbara ↓

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 9:20 am

I could only guess at which Moshava your daughter would attend. Do a google search and look at the photos/video to see how most of the girls dress. Based on the kids I know who go to Moshava in my area, I would guess that shorts for the girls is the norm, but the website is your best bet.

↑ chavamom ↓

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 9:23 am

Barbara wrote:

http://site.bunk1.com/moshava/videoHQ.asp

↑ Barbara ↓

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 10:11 am

Tamiri wrote:

I went to Moshava in 1973 and we wore bermuda-length shorts back then. That was considered SO frum! LOL.
If you are very makpid on skirt issues, maybe a co-ed camp isn't the best idea. I hear a lot of funny boy/girl things go on there these days.

Define *funny* I know a lot of kids at these camps, so you're talking about my son's friends, and the kids of my friends, here. (FTR, my son doesn't go to Moshava.)

The *most* I've ever heard about is Shabbat walks. And given the amount of information some of these kids share with me (and I've no clue WHY they share it with me), I'd probably know if there was more.

↑ Seraph ↓

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 10:21 am

Barbara wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Depending on the age of the kids (I was there between 8th and 10th grade), shabbos walks are just the start.
Shabbos walks are done when the counselors are looking. But then you'll always get those that are either sneaking out of the bunks after hours... or having a rendezvous with the boys during night peula... And lets just say this- they did MUCH more than just walk and hold hands. And even if some don't do stuff WHILE AT CAMP... the influence and pressure is outrageous. Whoever was shomer negiya (there were maybe 1 or 2 ppl like that) was THE absolute dork. First night in camp there was a verbal competition "Who went THE FARTHEST with a boy?" I got a TON of sx ed in camp from my bunk mates. Lets just say, unless you get into bed the second its lights out, and you don't participate in an discussions when counselors arent around, (and possibly even then), you wont leave camp with the same tmimusdik you entered.

↑ greenfire

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 10:22 am

Seraph wrote:

greenfire wrote:

moshava and stone are run differently ...

Stone IS a moshava. The moshavas as far as I know are wild rose, indian orchard, stone, and one other.

that's like comparing hebrew academy and mosdos ... both run by telshe yeshiva hanhala - yet very different Confused

↑ chavamom

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 10:22 am

Barbara wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Well, my son is also in B'nai Akiva and yes, info gets shared. There is more than shabbos walks going on with *some*.

↑ Barbara

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 10:56 am

chavamom wrote:

Barbara wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Well, my son is also in B'nai Akiva and yes, info gets shared. There is more than shabbos walks going on with *some*.

Oh, I'm sure it is, with *some* My son's friend goes to a centrist O school, not co-ed, kids are expected to be shomer negiah. That kid brought *his* friend by one day, and there was discussion of the 2nd boy, age 11 or so, laying down IN BED with a girl (from the sister school) and making out. Someone here recently posted about finding a HPT apparently used by her unmarried teenaged daughter. It would be unfair to characterize those things as *frequent* or *a lot* or problematic in those communities, based on those examples. But it seems to be acceptable re Moshava.

↑ Seraph ↓

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 11:01 am

greenfire wrote:

Seraph wrote:

greenfire wrote:

moshava and stone are run differently ...

Stone IS a moshava. The moshavas as far as I know are wild rose, indian orchard, stone, and one other.

that's like comparing hebrew academy and mosdos ... both run by telshe yeshiva hanhala - yet very different Confused

Uhm... no.
I've been there. Even if your daughters have been there (I have no clue if they have or havent), I assume those who actually are there know better than the parents of kids who may or may not tell you what actually goes on there.
My friends that went to stone, worked at stone, etc... also went to the other moshavas and worked at the others, and they told me they're all the same, just a matter of location. But I'm not arguing with you. Camp stone IS a moshava. That is a fact. I'm done arguing on that topic.

↑ Tamiri

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 11:38 am

Barbara wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Yes, the Shabbat walks. The thing is that they come with pressure, so that those who don't feel uncomfortable. I would not expect that in this day and age where separation of genders is more serious than in the past.

↑ Seraph

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 11:43 am

Whats that supposed to mean? If anything, I've heard these moshavas got much more modern. I know chareidi people who went to the moshavas back in the day, and they would never DREAM of sending their kids there today because the camps swung much to the left. Segregation of genders? In stone, the segregation is as follows:
Seperate bunks.
Seperate swimming.
Seperate peulot (but all bunks have seperate peulot), but sometimes a boys and a girls bunk will have a peula together.
Seperate sides of the mechitza for davening.
And on overnights, boys tents were pitched far from the girls. Aside for that, as of 6 years ago or so, there was no more segregation...

amother

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 12:01 pm

OP, why did you sign your DD up for the camp without checking it out first. What it an oversight or did you have the wrong impression of the place?

I went to Wild Rose in the late 80's, and thinking back it's shocking how to the left it is. And I can only imagine it got worse. When I was there, shorts below the knee were the norm. You gotta wonder who paskened that one for them! Male rosh mosh would actually come into the girls bunks at bedtime when everyone was in their nighties... some guy in his early twenties. Shabbos walks were a "Moshava thing", stamped with approval by the administration.... uh, I was 11 or 12 and encouraged to have romances? And I never personally experienced any serious stuff, but heard rumours about panty raids, where the hormonal boys sneak into the girls cabins...

Try to get your deposit back.

BestBubby

Thu, Apr 23 2009, 1:18 pm

Back in my heyday (Before 1970) I also went to camp Moshava but in Wild Rose Wisconsin. They just told us how many of each item we need. (Some people brought more, etc.)

Maybe I'm old but Why can't you subsitute skirts for the pants? Am I missing something? I guess, if you don't hold by pants maybe this camp isn't for your daughter.

We went on hikes and built tents and slept in the woods. I don't think you can do that in a skirt very well.

BT"W I loved Camp Moshava. The Ruach, especially on Shabbos, was awesome. You really felt the difference between Shabbos & Chol.