The Spitting Ceremony (Aleinu)

amother ↓

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 4:49 pm

so my kids are a little bit obsessed with the spitting in Aleinu. every time my dh davens at home, they run to where he is by aleinu to watch. it's very funny. when we were travelling and I told my kids that tatty would daven at a rest area, they asked, "will he also spit at the rest area?"

↑ amother ↓

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 4:54 pm

Its interesting you bring this up because my husband does not spit. He say's its discustting and the whole purpose is to let a tiny bit out. I do not want my children spitting like I see some men/kids out there do shock

red sea

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 4:56 pm

What in the world are u talking about?!

goldrose ↓

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 5:10 pm

spitting may be gross, but this is HOLY spitting. (kind of like, having a baby is gross, having relations is gross - that kind of thing) --and all jewish children should know to spit when they pass a church! LOL

chen

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 5:39 pm

for those of us who do not have this custom and have never seen it, please elucidate. From the title I thought she was talking about chalitzah.

didan

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 5:44 pm

B"H

I don't know where this custom originates (Motek, maybe you can help?), but after the words Lehevel Vilorik, before Va'anachnu, men spit on the floor. The idea behind it is (if I remember correctly) that the saliva that was used to say the words Lehevel Vilorik should not be used to say that we are bowing to HaShem etc.

↑ goldrose

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 5:46 pm

didan, this is in the hayom yom somewhere, I'm pretty sure.

gryp ↓

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 5:47 pm

thats right, didan.
we always learned in school that the (Lub) Rebbe would use a tissue from inside his sleeve instead.

stem

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 6:06 pm

NEVER heard of this. You guys astound me once again.

↑ gryp

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 6:19 pm

I just realized we have a different nusach which is why most people wont know about this.
we say: "Shelo Sam Chelkeinu Kahem V'Goraleinu K'chol Hamonum She'Haim Mishtachavim L'Hevel V'Larik V'anachnu Kor'im Umishtachavim Umodim...."
we make a stop before Va'anachnu to seperate what we do and what the non-Jews do.

Crayon210

Mon, Feb 13 2006, 6:32 pm

chen wrote:

for those of us who do not have this custom and have never seen it, please elucidate. From the title I thought she was talking about chalitzah.

Some of us do have this minhag, and still thought she was talking about chalitza...it's not such a ceremony! I spit a little in my hand and then wipe it off, that's it. LOL

Motek ↓

Mon, Apr 17 2006, 7:54 pm

GR wrote:

I just realized we have a different nusach which is why most people wont know about this.

right, it's not in Ashkenaz siddurim and it's not in all Sefard siddurim either

the Artscroll Sefard siddur has it in parentheses in the longer version (they bow to hevel v'rik, and pray to a god that does not help)

goldrose wrote:

didan, this is in the hayom yom somewhere, I'm pretty sure.

right, 9 Teves:

Quote:

Our custom in aleinu (Siddur Tehilat Hashem p. 84) is to say "for they bow to vanity and nothingness," and markedly not to say "and pray..." This wording is followed also in Musaf for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. The expectorating is after these words; the reason is that speech stimulates saliva, and we do not wish to benefit from this saliva.

great article:

http://www.chabad.org/library/.....=2898

Quote:

The double meaning of the word Varik, (rik, "emptiness," and rok, "spittle" or "saliva"), contributed to the practice of Jews spitting when saying this phrase. The anti-Jewish author Johann Andreas Eisenmenger interpreted this as an additional insult to Christianity. This too was refuted when it was pointed out that the practice of spitting was directed toward those who worshipped idols during the days of Joshua, and it was Isaiah (14 45:20) who later said, "they pray to a god that cannot save."

Hence, the habit of spitting became a sign of contempt for those early idol worshippers. Spitting while reciting Aleinu was finally denounced and discouraged by the great kabbalist, Rabbi Isaiah Horowitz (the Shela), and by other leading rabbis due to fear of the the gentiles. In recent years, however, it has become part of the prayer again, especially the Chassidim. (See commentery on the verse "for they bow to vanity and nothingness" for a further elucidation on the spitting). (Mekoray Minhagim, chap. 20; Min Yesh, chap. 69.)

the Taz defends the practice in S.A. Yoreh Dayeh, Hilchos Avoda Zara, sec. 179, par. 8. where it discusses the prohibition of spitting after reciting a verse from Torah. He says that this issur does NOT apply to spitting during Aleinu. He says that this is "minhag vasik" (an ancient custom).

and there are others, besides Lubavitchers, who spit in Aleinu

p.s. I also thought the thread was going to be about chalitza! Wink

↑ amother

Tue, Apr 18 2006, 12:45 am

Oh Man!

I'm SOOO Happy I'm not the one who cleans where those men daven!!!!!!!!

I've NEVER heard of this custom!!!!

Puke

brooklyn

Tue, Apr 18 2006, 4:23 am

goldrose wrote:

Do you really feel that having relations with your husband and giving birth to a child is gross? I thing those are two of the most wonderful things on this earth...
With regards to spitting during aleinu, I have seen people do it discreetly and people spitting like an animal. You are still davening to hashem there is no reason to hack up a lunger if you know what I mean.

BrachaVHatzlocha ↓

Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:07 pm

isn't it not polite to spit in a shul?
I asked my husband about it -- I'd never heard about it before -- and he said it's a Lubavitch minhag.
So I guess we don't do it.

↑ Motek

Tue, Apr 18 2006, 3:44 pm

BrachaVHatzlocha wrote:

isn't it not polite to spit in a shul?
I asked my husband about it -- I'd never heard about it before -- and he said it's a Lubavitch minhag.
So I guess we don't do it.

did you read my post?

if you read it, you will see that it's not a Chabad minhag and why our ideas of manners are not the same as the halacha's

chocolate moose

Tue, Apr 18 2006, 4:09 pm

Oh...............

↑ BrachaVHatzlocha

Thu, Apr 20 2006, 7:47 pm

sorry MOtek. (embarrased, blushing face)
I tend to skip over long posts with long quotes! or just glance through them.
I stand corrected. but it IS a minhag Lubavitch has...that's the proper way to put it. I understand others have it as well, but it's not widely spread in many other communities.
I'm not putting it down. just saying I'm not used to it. grew up in a family from chasidish background, went to a nusach sefard shul, went to BY-type school (run by some Lubavitchers) and now daven Ashkanaz. I just heard of this interesting minhag here.
you learn new things every day!