writing style frum vs secular

beilariva

Sun, Oct 18 2009, 12:34 am

Fox wrote:

beilariva wrote:

Read my Abba cokes up the House for Pesach. This story was very much appreciated by several publications but they had to say no since it was too much "out of it" for the readers, meaning us. Twisted Evil

This was adorable! Just for the record, why was it considered so outre?

I got the comments that spilling soft drinks all over the house for Shalom Bayit was just too much and to looney for the readership. This is even somewhat a real story so I guess REAL life is too looney for some frum publications. Very Happy

bashinda

Sun, Oct 18 2009, 11:44 pm

sequoia wrote:

NO! But... to be perfectly honest... not reading good books (I'm not talking about trashy books, romance novels, or anything like that) is beyond my imagination. Hashem gave all these people throughout history incredible talent and sparks of His own truth come through in their writings. George Eliot's "Daniel Deronda" comes to mind, for instance.

But I would suggest that you find good-quality frum fiction to read, if that's what you're limiting yourself to, as well as articles, essays, poems, and so on. When we read widely, we refine our own taste and style.

And don't give up your dream on any account! Never ever ever.

My problem is the hashkafa. How is this, even great classics, effecting my neshama? I just don't know. That's what is stopping me nowadays.

I'm trying to just read tons of stuff but of course it's a mixed bag. I was thinking also I might read secular non fiction but even there I have to just be really careful.

And I'm not giving up my dream. Thanks. Smile

And after seeing Mimivan's post I'm thinking of asking a shailah or talking to my mashpia. I hadn't thought of asking a rav about this at all.

zigi

Sun, Oct 18 2009, 11:58 pm

Fox wrote:

zigi wrote:

there are 2 new series of books out one is about a modern family and the other is victorian mysteries they are paperbacks and are 10$

http://www.eichlers.com/Produc......html

there are a lot of new authors and publishing houses now.

This sounded interesting, so I followed the link to read the detailed description:

Quote:

Mordechai and Leah Abrams had it all — a terrific marriage, four wonderful children, and a gorgeous home. Then, in a flash, their money is gone, and they are plunged into debt. Like a deadly oil spill, the effects ooze into every aspect of their lives, wreaking havoc on their world.

Where can they cut the budget without leaking their terrible secret? How will their oldest daughter, Yaffa, find a shidduch? What will happen with Huvi’s seminary plans? As the new reality sets in, the entire family gets sucked into a vortex of pain and shame.

Across town, an eight-year-old boy fights for his life. Leukemia is sweeping through little Yaakov’s body, and without a bone-marrow transplant, he doesn’t stand a chance. Leah davens for him in her weekly Tehillim group. But little does she know how their lives will soon be linked together — or of the terrible test she’ll have to face.

Betrayal and belief.
Duplicity and determination.

It’s Only Money is a powerful novel about the choices we make in trying times. This first saga in the stirring Legacy series will capture your heart and transport you into the inner world of the indomitable Abrams family.

Maybe the problem is more with the marketing than the books. Had Zigi not recommended this book, I think I'd be more than a little turned off. "Like a deadly oil spill"; "sucked into a vortex of pain and shame"; "sweeping through little Yaakov's body"; "the indomitable Abrams family." Dear me! That's more emotion than I can take in one sitting!

Clearly, the family is intended to be presented in a positive light, but I've already taken a dislike to them before purchasing or opening the book! Poor Yaffa! She might (gasp!) have to marry someone who doesn't care how much money her family has! And when I think of a "terrible secret," I usually think of something more salacious or scandalous than simply suffering a reversal of fortune.

I'm probably being overcritical about a blurb written by someone in marketing, not by the author, who is probably just as appalled. Good characters generally do have flaws, but they can't be so unsympathetic that the reader doesn't care about them.

I was basically mentioning the price of the book that they are trying to market a new series that are cheaper than a 20-24$ book. I didn't read it yet so I have no idea how its written, I guess I will buy it to see what its is like.

mimivan

Mon, Oct 19 2009, 12:05 am

bashinda wrote:

sequoia wrote:

And after seeing Mimivan's post I'm thinking of asking a shailah or talking to my mashpia. I hadn't thought of asking a rav about this at all.

bashinda
I was asking my mashpia (who then was Rabbi Majesky) specifically about reading to find models of good fiction because I planned to write....this might be a different question if it is mainly for enjoyment...I'd ask a Rav....

Even the most kosher secular fiction has its drawbacks. Even George Eliot has some passages that subtly reflect hasgofa that isn't ours...so it isn't so easy...taking what the Alter Rebbe says in Tanya, there should be a sense in which it is l'shem shamayim...if you feel that reading good fiction is good for your peace of mind once in a while, this may also be l'shem shamayim...(I.e. like relaxation. recharging yourself)...but as your LOR..

Last edited by mimivan on Mon, Oct 19 2009, 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total

zigi

Mon, Oct 19 2009, 12:08 am

Fox wrote:

While I agree that the goal of offending no one is absolutely deadening to good storytelling, it seems to me that our demands for frum characters are much, much higher -- and with good reason. Perhaps one solution would be stories that include frum characters but are not dependent on "frum issues" for their plots. Let Shayna Maidel investigate a mystery that has nothing to do with Yiddishkeit; let Chaim Yankel chase crooks -- let their fictional personalities, good middos, and foibles develop without requiring the author to take on every problem faced by our communities.

eli shekter wrote pyramid base and the bankers trust. they are good books. the main character is a frum guy, but that is it. it isn't preachy but its a good story. - they are thrillers though

I was thinking about authors. I remember reading rachel pomerantz she wrote the bt books. x became a bt.....

lazewenik uses a lot of description did other authors try to copy her writing style? who were the other authors of novels in the 90's?

I like the new serials that are coming out now that are in the weekly magazines.

bashinda

Mon, Oct 19 2009, 9:16 am

mimivan wrote:

no no no. I would only do it because I want to write. Otherwise I could manage without reading secular fiction. I've managed to do it for over a year now.